[Python-Dev] 3rd party extensions hot-fixing the stdlib (setuptools in the stdlib)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

[removing the python-checkins CC]

Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 09:02 PM 4/18/2006 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> Phillip J. Eby wrote:
>>> At 07:15 PM 4/18/2006 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>> Why should a 3rd party extension be hot-fixing the standard
>>>> Python distribution ?
>>> Because setuptools installs things in zip files, and older versions of
>>> pydoc don't work for packages zip files.
>> That doesn't answer my question.
> 
> That is the answer to the question you asked: "why hot-fix?"  Because 
> setuptools uses zip files, and older pydocs crash when trying to display 
> the documentation for a package (not module; modules were fine) that is in 
> a zip file.

I fail to see the relationship between setuptools and pydoc.

Please don't follow this route - you are putting the integrity
of the Python stdlib at risk.

The setuptools distribution is not the authoritative source for
these kinds of fixes and that should be made clear by separating
those parts out into a different package and making the
installation an explicit user option.

You should also note that users won't benefit from bug fixed
versions of e.g. such modules in patch level releases.

>> Third-party extensions *should not do this* !
> 
> If you install setuptools, you presumably would like for things to work, 
> and the hot fix eliminates a bug that interferes with them working.
> 
> I'm not sure, however, what you believe any of that has to do with 
> python-checkins or python-dev.  The version of setuptools that will do this 
> is not yet released, and the hotfix aspect will be documented.  If it 
> causes actual problems for actual setuptools users, it will be actually 
> fixed or actually removed.  :)  (Meanwhile, the separately-distributed 
> setuptools package is not a part of Python, any more than the Optik is, 
> despite Python including the 'optparse' package spun off from Optik.)

It's an issue to discuss on python-dev because it touches
things that python-dev folks develop.

However, it's not related to the rest of this discussion,
so I'm changing the subject line and will respond to the rest
in a separate email.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

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