[Python-Dev] setuptools in 2.5.

[Anthony Baxter]

On Thursday 20 April 2006 16:30, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> I think it is unfair (to Richard Jones) to attribute this to
> setuptools. We already have a CPAN-type system: the Cheeseshop.
> What setuptools adds is roughly the CPAN shell (ie. CPAN.pm
> or however it is implemented). Actually, I think it is ez_setup
> that provides (something like) the CPAN shell.

No, we have _half_ of a CPAN. We don't have the shell and the 
dependency finding and the ability to support multiple versions of 
the same package (at least, not without PYTHONPATH hell) and all the 
other stuff that makes CPAN useful.

And heck, Richard knows full well how good cheeseshop is. :-)

> It is my understanding that setuptools itself has nothing
> to do with a CPAN-like system, just as Makemakefile.pl has
> nothing to do with CPAN.

I'd disagree. A package index is a very nice and useful thing in and 
of itself. But it's only part of the solution.

> >  - The "develop" mode
> >
> >    This makes life that bit less painful all-round.
>
> This could be added to distutils with no problems, right?

Not without a lot of the other stuff that's in setuptools. 

> That is says from itself that it is version 0.7a1dev-r45536
> doesn't help to reduce that fear.

It's had _two_ _years_ of quite active development, so the version 
number of 0.7 is hardly a good indication. As far as all the other 
stuff on the end of the version string - well, right now Python's SVN 
trunk really could be considered 2.5a2dev-r45575.

> I would like to require that this is solved by contributing to
> distutils, instead of replacing it. I know this is an unrealistic
> request to make - in particular because there is only a single
> developer world-wide which actively develops "something like that".
>
> Requiring Phillip to rewrite distutils instead is certainly
> unfair - but I'm still unhappy with the path events take.

He's written code on _top_ _of_ _distutils_. How is this bad? It's 
using the underlying existing code. 

> > Finally, I'd like to point out that I think some of the hostility
> > towards Phillip's work has been excessive.
>
> I'd like to make clear that my hostility is only towards his work;
> never towards Phillip Eby himself.

See, I don't get the hostility thing. While I have some concerns about 
the state of distutils today, I still admire Greg Ward's efforts in 
producing the code, and Python is in a much better place than had he 
not done the work. Responding to an effort like Greg's, or Phillip's, 
with hostility is a fantastic way to discourage people from working 
further on Python or on the code in question. 

Anthony


-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.