[Python-Dev] setuptools: past, present, future

[Phillip J. Eby]

At 12:22 AM 4/22/2006 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>Why can't you remove the heuristic and screen-scrape info-search code
>from the easy_install client and run one spider that would check
>new/revised PyPI entries, search for missing info, insert it into PyPI when
>found (and mark the entry eggified), or email the package author or a human
>search volunteer if it does not find enough?

I actually considered that at one point.  After all, I certainly have the 
technology.

However, I didn't consider it for more than 10 seconds or so.  Package 
authors have no reason to listen to some random guy with a bot -- but they 
do have reasons to listen to their users, both actual and potential.

The problem isn't fundamentally a technical one, but a social one.  You can 
effect social change through technology, but not by being some random guy 
with a nagging 'bot.

Hm, can I nominate myself for the QOTF?  :)

Seriously, though, posting Cheesecake scores (which include ratings for 
findability of code, use of distutils, etc.) would be a fine way to achieve 
the same effect, and if they're part of PyPI itself, they don't give off 
the same "random guy with a bot" effect.  Instead, they are a visible 
reflection of community standards or values, and influence action through 
public shame instead of nagging.  And shame scales better as the size of a 
community increases.  :)

There are actually additional technical and social reasons why I don't 
believe the bot approach would work or scale well, even if it was clearly a 
community effort.  For example, doing the work *for* package authors would 
effectively mean supporting them forever, since they would never have a 
reason to learn to do it themselves.  But these other reasons rather pale 
compared to the chicken-and-egg problem that I'd have faced in trying to 
kick off such an effort without easy_install already having been 
established with a sizable base of fan(atic)s.

Anyway, it's certainly an attractive idea, and until you brought it up I'd 
forgotten I had even considered it once.  It would be nice if it could 
work, but I still think adding Cheesecake scores to PyPI would be a better 
accelerant -- especially because it measures other "qwalitee" factors 
besides easy_install-ability.

And since Cheesecake actually *depends* on easy_install to be able to rate 
documentation and various other aspects of a package (because it actually 
uses easy_install to find and fetch a package's source code), you're not 
going to be able to score at *all* on some factors if you don't make your 
package findable.  Thus, easy_install-ability is a prerequisite to even 
being able to see how you compare to others.

So... let them eat Cheesecake.  :)