[Python-Dev] Refactoring installation schemes
David Lyon
david.lyon at preisshare.net
Fri Nov 6 00:55:01 CET 2009
Tarek, Guido,
Forgive my grumpy tone..
Looking positive, if we now have a rough consensus that the PEPS might
represent some 300+ lines of code... then good - lets get started, that's
all that I meant. I'm glad above all, that you noticed that part foremost.
If it's a simple case that alternative's to the solutions cannot
be considered - because I am grumpy - whatever, then that's something
I can live with. I didn't know that proposing a different solution
wasn't a good idea.
> PS. Submitting a counter-PEP to the peps editors that hasn't been
> discussed on the SIG list at all is also a bad move. You really need
> to change the way you try to interact with the SIG.
Here are the references to the discussions from distutils-sig. In these
references you'll see that my interaction with the list was not grumpy
but was entirely positive. I feel that I got a fair hearing on distutils
list and I had a number of supporters to my proposal.
The proposal is in the final stages of being wrapped up.
Here are the discussion References that have occurred over the year:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2009-November/thread.html
November 2009 Archives by thread
* Messages sorted by: [ subject ] [ author ] [ date ]
* More info on this list...
Starting: Sun Nov 1 09:31:46 CET 2009
Ending: Fri Nov 6 00:09:22 CET 2009
Messages: 65
* [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Georg
Brandl
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission...
Floris Bruynooghe
+ [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission...
Georg Brandl
+ [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission...
David Lyon
# [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP
submission... Georg Brandl
# [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP
submission... David Lyon
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2009-October/thread.html
# [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David Lyon
* [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Tarek
Ziadé
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Tarek
Ziadé
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Eric
Smith
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Tarek
Ziadé
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
* [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
* [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Floris
Bruynooghe
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Tarek
Ziadé
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Tarek
Ziadé
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission...
Floris Bruynooghe
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Tarek
Ziadé
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Ian
Bicking
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Fred
Drake
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Kevin
Teague
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Fred
Drake
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Piotr
Ozarowski
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Piotr
Ozarowski
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Fred
Drake
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Fred
Drake
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Eric
Smith
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... Fred
Drake
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Alternate static metadata PEP submission... David
Lyon
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2009-August/thread.html
[Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek Ziadé
* [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Hanno Schlichting
* [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg P.J. Eby
o [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
* [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg David Lyon
o [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Jeff Rush
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Ben Finney
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg David Lyon
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Eric Smith
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Chris
Withers
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Chris
Withers
* [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg David Lyon
o [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Sridhar
Ratnakumar
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg David Lyon
o [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Alex Grönholm
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg David Lyon
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Floris
Bruynooghe
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Ronald
Oussoren
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg P.J. Eby
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Chris
Withers
o [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Chris Withers
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Chris
Withers
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg David Lyon
+ [Distutils] Static metadata using setup.cfg Tarek
Ziadé
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2009-July/thread.html
# [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open questions
on python-dev) David Lyon
# [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open questions
on python-dev) P.J. Eby
* [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Eric Smith
* [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) David Cournapeau
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Jim Fulton
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) David Cournapeau
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Jim Fulton
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) David Cournapeau
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Jim Fulton
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Tres Seaver
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) David Cournapeau
o [Distutils] Questions about virtual-python on ubuntu David
Lyon
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Paul Moore
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Jim Fulton
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) David Lyon
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Jim Fulton
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) David Lyon
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) Jim Fulton
o [Distutils] "setup.py needs to go away" (was [PEP 376] - Open
questions on python-dev) David Lyon
# [Distutils] Removing the hack from setup.py - Setup.py as a Class, not a
Procedure David Lyon
# [Distutils] Removing the hack from setup.py - Setup.py as a Class, not a
Procedure Jeff Rush
# [Distutils] Removing the hack from setup.py - Setup.py as a Class, not a
Procedure David Lyon
# [Distutils] Removing the hack from setup.py - Setup.py as a Class, not a
Procedure P.J. Eby
# [Distutils] Removing the hack from setup.py - Setup.py as a Class, not a
Procedure David Lyon
# [Distutils] Removing the hack from setup.py - Setup.py as a Class, not a
Procedure Jean-Paul Calderone
# [Distutils] Setup.py as a Class, not a Procedure David Lyon
# [Distutils] Setup.py as a Class, not a Procedure Jean-Paul Calderone
# [Distutils] Setup.py as a Class, not a Procedure David Lyon
[Distutils] introspecting package data Chris Withers
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2009-June/thread.html
* [Distutils] introspecting package data Tarek Ziadé
o [Distutils] introspecting package data Chris Withers
+ [Distutils] introspecting package data Jim Fulton
+ [Distutils] introspecting package data Chris Withers
+ [Distutils] introspecting package data Tarek Ziadé
+ [Distutils] introspecting package data David Lyon
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:18:12 -0800, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
wrote:
> David, you have an attitude problem. Your contributions (the post
> below is just an example) don't sound healthy to me -- you just
> complain and whine and denigrate Tarek's work. In a previous post you
> claimed to have had a particular idea first (it doesn't matter which
> idea) and you managed to make it sound bad that your idea was
> eventually accepted. This is not a productive attitude.
>
> Surely the problem isn't writing 300 lines of code. The problem is
> getting everyone to agree on which 300 lines of code should be
> written. That is the problem at hand, and claiming that nothing
> happened because no code was written and all that was agreed on
> amounts to 300 lines of code is outright demeaning.
>
> Stop it. You are wearing out your welcome.
>
> --Guido
>
> PS. Submitting a counter-PEP to the peps editors that hasn't been
> discussed on the SIG list at all is also a bad move. You really need
> to change the way you try to interact with the SIG.
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 2:29 PM, David Lyon <david.lyon at preisshare.net>
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 11:35:41 +0100, Tarek Ziadé <ziade.tarek at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> PEP 376 is working on a default, unified, *installation* format, that
>>> tries to gather the good ideas of Pip, Setuptools etc.. and propose a
>>> unified format for our site-packages. This new standard will come with
>>> APIs in pkgutil to be able to query installed distribution etc. This
>>> work is also linked to PEP 345 work where we are modifying the
>>> Metadata, and to PEP 386 that proposes a standard version comparison
>>> scheme.
>>
>> Perphaps..
>>
>> But if you put all these PEPs together, implementing all the new
features
>> can't come to more than 300 lines of code...
>>
>> Since we hardly got anywhere on them in 2009, it will be interesting to
>> see how much of it gets done in 2010.
>>
>>> But there's no plan to include a new *distribution* format in
Distutils.
>>
>> I wasn't suggesting that - at all.
>>
>> And saying that 'eggs' are a *new* python package format isn't really
>> really helpful because to my understanding they've been around for
>> some number of years.
>>
>> No, i won't raise why we have EGG_INFO directories and a whole lot
>> of half working egg stuff in standard python... I'm just asking
>> why it can't be more consistant? while we're on the refactoring
>> topic.
>>
>> Be fair...
>>
>> I'm saying finish what is already there.. or take out the crap ..
>>
>> It isn't fair to suggest that I am somehow asking for some big
>> change when I am simply pointing out all the junk that's in
>> there that's already half built.
>>
>>> In any case those PEPs are not finished yet, so everyone can help at
>>> distutils-SIG
>>
>> True - and False.
>>
>> But I've been on the list for some twelve months asking for work
>> to help out with, and haven't been assigned a single task to do
>> yet.
>>
>> Seriously, if you won't allocate work out to people then how can
>> it get done?
>>
>> Whilst I personally think a lot of the stuff in those PEPs is not
>> high on quality, why don't we just get them implemented anyway?
>>
>> I'm a fairly proficient develper, but I can't get assigned a single
>> work item..
>>
>> And to me, it doesn't seem any harder than just selecting 'djlyon'
>> on the python tracker for some work items...
>>
>> Surely those PEPs all amount to 300+ lines of code. With two people
>> working on it, that's only surely 150+ lines of code each... That
>> shouldn't be such a big challenge for 2010..
>>
>> David
>>
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