[Python-Dev] Python Package Management Roadmap in Python Releases

Brett Cannon brett at python.org
Thu Oct 22 03:38:26 CEST 2009

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 18:17, David Lyon <david.lyon at preisshare.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:56:57 -0700, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
> > but I don't see why python-dev should have input on that sort of thing.
> python-dev is the only place where we could get a change to the
> installation
> binary release. We'd need a change and the addition of a program
> shortcut.
But that assumes you can get your tool into the stdlib. It would have been
better to phrase the question as "is there interest in having a package
manager tool included with Python" rather than ask us out of the blue what
GUI you should use.

> > If you want distutils to expose something to make it easier to write your
> > tool then that belong on the distutils-sig. But otherwise this seems
> > off-topic for python-dev.
> I didn't ask for that - because I know that getting that assistance on the
> distutils side is certainly possible.
> Distutils is simply just one of the many libraries within python. It
> doesn't
> have an external interface.
And that's on purpose.

> The roadmap for distutils for windows doesn't include getting a shortcut
> or utility for windows so that's why I'm asking about it here.
> Surely logic says that if it's 'python' and 'development' and it's
> not in distutils then some discussion of it should be allowed here.
No it surely does not. We do not need to discuss design decisions of pip,
setuptools, virtualenv, buildout, or various other tools that involve the
terms "python" and "development" and are not in distutils.

> What I am really talking about is the menu shortcuts in the cpython
> distribution for windows. And how they can be improved to help
> windows users. This is the only place that I can think to discuss
> that.

David, you are making a huge leap here thinking that we even want a package
manager in the stdlib. You did not ask about menu shortcuts but whether a
package manager should be written using Tk or a web front-end. Then you
start discussing about wanting to add some UI to package management by
default on Windows or add some tool that sounds like what the EU is going to
have MS stick in front of users to get new user by browsers. This extends
beyond adding some shortcut the Windows installer adds to someone's machine.

I realize you are trying to help, David, but you are going in the wrong
direction here and pushing rather hard. At the language summit we discussed
opening up some APIs in distutils about making it easier for people to write
package management tools, but we don't have a burning desire to get into the
tool business. We make a language here. Distutils exists as a bootstrap
mechanism for the package story and for our own building needs of the
stdlib. But I doubt I am the only core developer who has no interest to be
in charge of a package management tool when there already exists several
good ones out there that people seem to find on their own without issue.

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