[Python-Dev] Distutils ML wrap-up: setup.cfg new format

Tarek Ziadé ziade.tarek at gmail.com
Thu Sep 24 00:40:30 CEST 2009

(Sorry if it's top posting I am on a mobile)

Come on phillip, no one is "plotting" against you.

You didn't maintain setuptools for a year while people where begging you to
do bug fixes. You blessed Ian and Jim to take over but they are too busy to
do it . I even sent them a mail on my side to try to convince them.

So we asked you to bless someone else that was active (not in particular me
as your mail seem to say) but you did not. So we forked. And people were
pissed off at you. (Which I am sorry about)

If a project is not maintained and if the maintainer does not open it to
other maintainers, that s the way to go .

And the fact that I took the lead of that fork doesn't mean I am offended
because you did not bless me to maintain setuptools. It just means that I
want to move forward and have a working tool for python 3.

So let me make it clear that when you say "Tarek appears" it is something I
have never said but rather something you are thinking like being the truth.

Now for the Distribute work , your patches are very welcome. It s a
community project.

On Sep 23, 2009 10:47 PM, "P.J. Eby" <pje at telecommunity.com> wrote:

At 07:00 PM 9/23/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote: > > While it's great to have
Philipp being part of o...
Here's what actually happened, if anyone cares.  Tarek and friends announced
a fork of setuptools.  I reviewed the work and saw that -- for the most part
-- I was happy with it, and opined as how I might be willing to bless the
the "package inquisition" team as official maintainers of the 0.6 branch of
setuptools, so that I could work on the fun bits I've long planned for 0.7,
but never felt free to start on while there was so much still needing to be
done on 0.6.

However, just as I mentioned this, and suggested an option for what I could
do that would be helpful to his Distribute 0.7 project as well as various
other tools (e.g. implementing some of Jim Fulton's long-requested features
for better modularization of setuptools), Tarek accused me of somehow trying
to undermine his plans.

In addition, it appears Tarek was also offended by my earlier statement that
there were only a few people in the Python community who had *already*
earned my implicit trust to not only hack on setuptools unsupervised, but
also to take over its *future* direction and BDFL-ship.  (For example, Jim
Fulton and Ian Bicking.)

Tarek, however, appears to have taken this to mean that I personally thought
he was an incompetent programmer or something (when I actually had no
opinion one way or the other), and ever since he has taken to levelling
potshots like the above at me on a semi-regular basis.

I've tried to ignore this and play nice, because he is actually working on
this stuff and I am not.  But it's hard for me to actually give any help in
practice, if Tarek is too busy projecting hidden plots onto everything I say
and do.

If you read Tarek's distutils-sig posts, it appears my already-existing
trust in Ian and Jim was not only a personal insult to Tarek, but also a
plot to ensure that nobody with any time to do so would ever work on
setuptools, just as my excitement about working on setuptools again was a
plot to steal thunder from his fork.

All I want is for good stuff to happen for setuptools users and Python users
in general, so I don't think all the suspicion and backbiting is merited.  I
certainly don't appreciate it, and I would like it to stop.  It also isn't
even relevant to the thread, since my lack of work on setuptools says
exactly zero about the merits or lack thereof of Tarek's proposals for the

Hell, I *support* the bulk of Tarek's setup.cfg proposal, and don't even
object to him Pronouncing it or cutting off the discussion!  My only issue
on Python-Dev was his inaccurate implication that it was a SIG consensus
rather than a pronouncement on it.  There is and was no need for any of this
to get personal, and I have continually strived to keep my posts here and
distutils-sig civil, even when I didn't feel like being civil in response to
Tarek's jabs.  I have in fact bent over backwards to be *nice* to Tarek,
because he seemed so damn sensitive about everything.  Apparently, however,
this does not actually help things.  :-(
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