[Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

[Mark Lawrence]

On 11/07/2010 19:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
>
> On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>
>>> Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
>>> improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
>>> Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved
>>> much since 2005 despite my efforts. For example, see
>>> http://bugs.python.org/issue1529142, where it took nearly 3 years to
>>> fix a major issue from the moment I posted the first workaround. For
>>> another example, see http://bugs.python.org/issue3068, where I posted
>>> a patch for an extension configuration dialog over two years ago, and
>>> it hasn't received as much as a sneeze in response.
>>
>> I can understand that this is frustrating, but please understand that
>> this is not specific to your patches, or to IDLE. Many other patches on
>> bugs.python.org remain unreviewed for many years. That's because many of
>> the issues are really tricky, and there are very few people who both
>> have the time and the expertise to evaluate them.
>
> This problem seems to me to be the root cause here.
>
> Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit access, and hopefully that will help in this particular area.  But, as I recall, at the last language summit there was quite a bit of discussion about how to address the broader issue of patches falling into a black hole.  Is anybody working on it?
>
> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF funds might help; if every single bug were actively triaged and responded to, even if it weren't reviewed, and patch contributors were directed to take specific steps to elicit a response or a review, the fact that patch reviews take a while might not be so bad.)
>
>> FWIW, I don't consider a few months as a "long" time for a patch review.
>
> It may not be a long time compared to other patch reviews, but it is a very long time for a volunteer to wait for something, especially if that "something" is "any indication that the python developers care that this patch was submitted at all".
>
> There seems to be at least one thread a month on this list from a disgruntled community member complaining (directly or indirectly) about this delay.  I think that makes it a big problem.
>
>> At the moment, I'm personally able to perhaps review one issue per week
>> (sometimes less); at this rate, it'll take several years until I get
>> to everything.
>
>
> I guess it depends what you mean by "everything", but given that the open bug count is actually increasing at a significant rate, I would say that you can never possibly get to "everything".
>
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I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with 
animosity from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel.  I 
thought it was a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend 
going back.  I would like things fixed, not a cosy little "who's round 
is it next" mentality from the triage team.  IMHO if they spent more 
time doing things, and less time talking crap via IRC, things might get 
done.  And before anyone says anything, I have been a former MBCS and 
CEng and only gave up cos I couldn't afford the annual fees cos of my 
health.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence