[Python-Dev] http://bugs.python.org/issue231540

geremy condra debatem1 at gmail.com
Sat Jul 24 03:06:32 CEST 2010

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Simon de Vlieger <simon at ikanobori.jp> wrote:
> On 24 July 2010 01:39, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/07/2010 00:09, Paul Moore wrote:
>>> On 23 July 2010 23:26, Mark Lawrence<breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>> Is there any money to pay for the forthcoming 10th birthday party for
>>>> this
>>>> issue?  Is the OP still alive?
>>> I'm not sure the sarcasm helps much. What do you suggest should be
>>> done with the request? Nobody has provided a patch, so there's nothing
>>> to commit. Closing it as "won't fix" seems unreasonable, as I imagine
>>> that should a suitable patch be supplied, it would be accepted.
>>> There's no magical means by which such a patch would appear, though.
>>> The OP clearly[1] is either not interested enough or doesn't have the
>>> skills to provide a patch, and no-one else has stepped up to do so.
>>> Note that it's been classified as a feature request, not a bug. So
>>> there's nothing wrong, as such, with it remaining unresolved.
>>> Paul.
>>> [1] I say "clearly" - it may be that he could provide a patch if
>>> asked. Maybe it would be worth you contacting him to ask if the issue
>>> is still a problem for him, and whether he can assist in resolving it.
>> Paul,
>> I'm on the verge of giving up my time because the whole system is a complete
>> and utter waste of my time.  I feel quite happy that in my brief tenure I've
>> closed 46 issues, but there's so many more that could have been closed, but
>> yet again you don't even get the courtesy of a response when there's more in
>> the pipeline that could be closed.  I'd quote the issue numbers here and
>> now, but I'm just too flaming tired to do so, though a quick count indicates
>> I've got 23 ongoing that I'm attempting to sort.
>> As it happens, I have been having discussions offline in an attempt to shift
>> the culture of Python development but I don't believe that anything will
>> come out of it.  Let's face it, development is much more interesting than
>> bug fixes. And once again, if some stupid idiot volunteer bothers to put in
>> a patch to the code and/or the unit test, and it sits and rots for five
>> years, is that person likely to come back to Python?  Strangely, some do.
>> Sorry, I'm off to bed.
>> Yours feeling most disillusioned with python-dev.
>> Mark Lawrence.
> Mark,
> when I read your emails it seems to me as if you have the greatest
> concern with improving Python, the language and improving the state of
> the bug tracker.
> This is a great thing, people like you are much needed. However, I do
> seem to notice you try to take a business-like approach here on this
> mailinglist. Most people on python-dev are volunteers who (like you)
> spend their free time helping and working on Python.
> People who work in their free time are less likely to feel obliged to
> respond immediately to an issue. They are also less likely to keep
> paying attention to the bugs they were assigned.
> I think a person like you is needed, someone who weeds through the
> rotting bug reports (not the feature requests) and tries to follow up
> on them. Is the issue persistent for the user, has it been fixed as
> collateral on another fix, etcetera.
> However, I think you would get more done if you switched from a
> business philosophy to accepting that most people here are volunteers,
> don't try to pressure volunteers. Try to do the best *you* can within
> the community and let that help the project further.
> Oh, and with business philosophy I mean: mails like the one you start
> this thread with are interpreted by me as being very pushy, overly
> sarcastic and if my project manager at the office sends me an email
> like that I know I have to do it right now. I would dislike to be
> spoken to like this in an voluntary environment. Do note that I do
> understand where your feelings come from.
> Regards,
> Simon de Vlieger
> P.S. a feature day sounds like a great idea!

I don't care if he yells and rants and raves, he's a volunteer too, he
does a ton of work that nobody else has stepped up to do, and IMO
we're very lucky to have him doing it.

Geremy Condra

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