[Python-Dev] #Python3 ! ?

[Terry Reedy]

On 6/19/2010 8:56 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
 > On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:39 PM, geremy condra wrote:
 >
 >> Bottom line, what I'd really like to do is kick them all off of
 >> #python, but
 >> practically I see very little that can be done to rectify the
 >> situation at this
 >> point.

Given the experiences you reported, I can understand that sentiment, but 
I explicitly disclaimed any intent to fight or power struggle.

 > Here's something you can do: port libraries to python 3 and make the
 > ecosystem viable.
 >
 > It's as simple as that. Nobody on #python has an ideological axe to
 > grind,

Then why are they grinding an anti-Python3 axe?

As I explained in my original post, I did not take anyone's word for it, 
but verified for myself that they are indeed doing so and why I thought so.

There are people who are opposed to Python3 and have the fantasy that if 
it fails, the devs would continue to pile new features, sometimes 
duplicative features into 2.x and never remove anything. They do not 
care that this would make the language harder and harder for new learners.

However, I will consider taking your claim at face value and, ignoring 
the insulting login message and site, try a Python3 question and see 
what response I get.

 > they just want to tell users to use tools which actually solve
 > their problems.

But that is not what they are doing. Python3 solved many of *my* 
problems with Python2, and there they are, commanding me and potential 
readers of my book-in-progress not to use it. If they wanted to help 
people make an intelligent choice between Python2 and Python3, they 
would point people to a discussion of the pros and cons of each. There 
have been several posted on python-list. Anyone who posted either "Do 
not use Python3" or "Do not use Python2" as a sweeping answer to a 
generic enquiry about 2 versus 3 might rightfully be blasted as a troll.

 > If Python 3 had all the features and libraries as Python 2,

Python3 has several features that Python2 does not. To me, nearly all 
the deletions and changes make the language better, much better, for 
*my* purposes. However, I am glad that the PSF exists to make all 
versions of Python available indefinitely for anyone who has need of 
them. I would not dream of saying "Python2: do not use it" to anyone 
except in response to a question about a specific problem solved in 
Python3 and not in Python2.

Terry Jan Reedy