[Python-Dev] Sumo

[Paul Moore]

On 27 May 2010 00:11, geremy condra <debatem1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not clear, you seem to be arguing that there's a market for many
> augmented python distributions but not one. Why not just have one
> that includes the best from each domain?

Because that's "bloat". You later argue that a web designer wouldn't
care if his "distribution" included numpy. OK, maybe, but if my needs
are simply futures, cx_Oracle and pywin32, I *would* object to
downloading many megabytes of other stuff just to get those three.
It's a matter of degree.

>> I'm genuinely struggling to see how a Sumo distribution ever comes
>> into being under your proposal. There's no evidence that anyone wants
>> it (otherwise it would have been created by now!!)
>
> Everything worth making has already been made?

Not what I'm saying. But if/when it happens, something will trigger
it. I see no sign of such a trigger. That's all I'm saying.

>> and until it exists, it's not a plausible "place" to put modules that don't
>> make it into the stdlib.
>
> Of course its implausible to put something somewhere that
> doesn't exist... until it does.

Hence my point - people are saying futures don't belong in the stdlib
but they could go in a sumo distribution. The second half of that
statement is (currently) content free if not self-contradictory.

> I'd say rather that there are a large number of specialized tools which
> aren't individually popular enough to be included in Python, but which
> when taken together greatly increase its utility, and that sumo offers a
> way to provide that additional utility to python's users without forcing
> python core devs to shoulder the maintenance burden.

I don't believe that there's evidence that aggregation (except in the
context of specialist areas) does provide additional utility. (In the
context of the discussion that sparked this debate, that contrasts
with inclusion in the stdlib, which *does* offer additional utility -
"batteries included", guaranteed and tested cross-platform
functioning, a statement of best practice, etc etc).

Paul.

PS One thing I haven't seen made clear - in my view, they hypothetical
"sumo" is a single aggregated distribution of Python
modules/packages/extensions. It would NOT include core Python and the
stdlib (in contrast to Enthought or ActivePython). I get the
impression that other people may be thinking in terms of a full Python
distribution, like those 2 cases. We probably ought to be clear which
we're talking about.