[Python-Dev] Python-3 transition in Arch Linux

[Laurens Van Houtven]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Experience teaches us that people do speak up more than they tend to
keep schtum. We do get feedback on most things, including the "NO
ARCH" rule. At least so far, responses have not been anywhere near
what you'd expect if you'd tell people to "RTFM n00b" (in terms of
defensiveness and verbal hostility, at least). From the things I've
seen (and I've asked other regulars, they seem to agree), the related
interactions have been short, clear, and cordial. The first is
important to #python because it keeps the signal to noise ratio high.
The second is important to the person with the broken package, so they
know what to do to fix it and how to get it fixed for other people as
well. The last part is important to everyone.

As usual, any and all policy is up for debate, but I really see too
much result (not just for #python, but for the people with the broken
package as well) and too little badness to consider taking it down
right now. I believe I speak for all of the ops and regulars in
#python when I say that. Even Allan himself has said that he agrees
with the rule, and yes: I do honestly believe that right now, it is
the best thing we can actually *do*. That doesn't mean it has to be
the best thing bar none: like with software projects, "patches
welcome", if you have any suggestions for improving this, we're all
ears. However, I've already said: this is temporary, it's going down
as soon as we stop getting feedback on it. (Checking if that has
occurred or not is in my tickler file for next Friday.)

It has already been pointed out in this thread that Arch is a distro
with a target audience of above average knowledge. Yes, the rule does
expect people to understand the difference between an Arch-specific
problem and something that's likely to be unrelated.to whatever distro
it is you're running. Even the people who do feel instantly offended
and just leave without asking questions, hey, at least they're likely
to go to Arch-specific spots next for support, and that's the right
place (FWIW I do not believe this to be a significant amount of
people).

Also, sometimes pointing people to the FM is just the only reasonable
thing left to do. If you've got recent-ish logs (24h) I can give you a
recent prime example of that. I do doubt that anyone used terminology
like 'RTFM n00b'. If you think 'NO ARCH' is the same kind of language,
well, we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I could see how
someone would think that, but IRC typically forces people to be more
brief, and a lot of people understandably mistake that for being blunt
or even downright rude. That's an unfortunate side effect of the
medium that pretty much every large channel I know of has had to deal
with in some way.

cheers
lvh