[Python-Dev] (Not) delaying the 3.2 release

Steve Holden steve at holdenweb.com
Thu Sep 16 22:12:15 CEST 2010

On 9/16/2010 3:07 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 16 September 2010 07:16, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>>> I'm not working to get Django running on Python 3.1 because I don't
>>>> feel confident I'll be able to put any apps I write into production.
>>> Why not? Since the I/O speed problem is fixed, I have no idea what you are
>>> referring to.  Please do be concrete.
>> At the risk of putting words into Jacob's mouth, I understood him to
>> mean that "production quality" WSGI servers either do not exist, or do
>> not implement a consistently defined spec (i.e., everyone is doing
>> their own thing to adapt WSGI to Python 3).
> Yup, exactly.
> Deploying web apps under Python 2 right now is actually pretty
> awesome. There's a clear leader in mod_wsgi that's fast, stable, easy
> to use, and under active development. There's a few great lightweight
> pure-Python servers, some new-hotness (Gunicorn) and some
> tried-and-true (CherryPy). There's a fast-as-hell bleeding-edge option
> (nginx + uwsgi). And those are just the ones I've successfully put
> into production -- there're still *more* options if one of those won't
> cut it.
> The key here is that switching between all of these deployment
> situations is *incredibly* easy. Actually, this very afternoon I'm
> planning to experiment with a switch from mod_wsgi to gunicon. I'm
> confident enough with the inter-op that I'm going to make the switch
> on a production web server, monitor it for a bit, then switch back.
> I've budgeted an hour for this, and I'll probably end up spending half
> that time playing Minecraft while I gather statistics.
> Python 3 offers me none of this. I don't have a wide variety of tools
> to choose from. Worse, I don't even have a guarantee of
> interoperability between the tools that *do* exist.
> ---
> I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a complainer here. It's a
> frustrating situation for me: I want to start using Python 3, but
> until there's a working web stack waiting for me I just can't justify
> the time. And unfortunately I'm just not familiar enough with the
> problem(s) to have any real shot at working towards a solution, and
> I'm *certainly* not enough of an expert to work on a PEP or spec. So
> all I can really do is agitate.
I think you are entitled to describe real-world use cases that Python 3
needs to start solving to be accepted as production-ready.

Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
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