[Python-Dev] [GSoC] Developing a benchmark suite (for Python 3.x)

[Michael Foord]

On 08/04/2011 00:36, Anthony Scopatz wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Michael Foord 
> <fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk <mailto:fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk>> wrote:
>
>     On 07/04/2011 22:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
>         On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:32:24 -0400
>         Tres Seaver<tseaver at palladion.com
>         <mailto:tseaver at palladion.com>>  wrote:
>
>                 Right now, we are talking about building
>                 "speed.python.org <http://speed.python.org>" to test
>                 the speed of python interpreters, over time, and
>                 alongside one another
>                 - cython *is not* an interpreter.
>
>                 Cython is out of scope for this.
>
>             Why is it out of scope to use the benchmarks and test
>             harness to answer
>             questions like "can we use Cython to provide optional
>             optimizations for
>             the stdlib"?  I can certainly see value in havng an
>             objective way to
>             compare the macro benchmark performance of a
>             Cython-optimized CPython
>             vs. a vanilla CPython, as well as vs. PyPY, Jython, or
>             IronPython.
>
>         Agreed. Assuming someone wants to take care of the Cython side of
>         things, I don't think there's any reason to exclude it under the
>         dubious reason that it's "not an interpreter".
>         (would you exclude Psyco, if it was still alive?)
>
>
>     Well, sure - but within the scope of a GSOC project limiting it to
>     "core python" seems like a more realistic goal.
>
>     Adding cython later shouldn't be an issue if someone is willing to
>     do the work.
>
>
> Jesse, I understand that we are talking about the benchmarks on 
> speed.pypy.org <http://speed.pypy.org>.  The current suite, and 
> correct me if I
> am wrong, is completely written in pure python so that any of the 
> 'interpreters' may run them.
>
> My point, which I stand by, was that during the initial phase (where 
> benchmarks are defined) that the Cython crowd
> should have a voice.  This should have an enriching effect on the 
> whole benchmarking task since they have
> thought about this issue in a way that is largely orthogonal to the 
> methods PyPy developed.  I think it
> would be a mistake to leave Cython out of the scoping study.
>

Personally I think the Gsoc project should just take the pypy suite and 
run with that - bikeshedding about what benchmarks to include is going 
to make it hard to make progress. We can have fun with that discussion 
once we have the infrastructure and *some* good benchmarks in place (and 
the pypy ones are good ones).

So I'm still with Jesse on this one. If there is any "discussion phase" 
as part of the Gsoc project it should be very strictly bounded by time.

All the best,

Michael

> I actually agree with Micheal.  I think the onus of getting the 
> benchmarks working on every platform is the
> onus of that interpreter's community.
>
> The benchmarking framework that is being developed as part of GSoC 
> should be agile enough to add and
> drop projects over time and be able to make certain tests as 'known 
> failures', etc.
>
> I don't think I am asking anything unreasonable here.  Especially, 
> since at the end of the day the purview of
> projects like PyPy and Cython ("Make Python Faster") is the same.
>
> Be Well
> Anthony
>
>
>
>     All the best,
>
>     Michael Foord
>
>         Regards
>
>         Antoine.
>
>
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-- 
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/

May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html

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