[Python-Dev] public visibility of python-dev decisions "before it's too late" (was: PyCObject_AsVoidPtr removed from python 3.2 - is this documented?)

[Jesse Noller]

On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:
> "Martin v. Löwis", 08.03.2011 23:47:
>>>>
>>>> I think everything here is as it should be. People who really cared
>>>> about forwards compatibility could have known, but factually, most
>>>> people don't care enough. Those then learn for the first time that
>>>> some feature was deprecated after it is actually removed. They then
>>>> ask why it is removed, and somebody will tell them.
>>>
>>> I was not aware I could turn on deprecation warning for use of the C
>>> API. How can I do that?
>>
>> Not sure that you can. When I said "could have known", I meant "by
>> reading the documentation".
>
> I can confirm that the Cython project was as surprised of the PyCapsule
> change in Python 3.2 as (I guess) most other users, and I would claim that
> we are a project with one of the highest probabilities of being impacted by
> C-API changes.
>
> Maybe the "what's new" document could at least include a link to the
> relevant python-dev discussion/decision, so that fewer people have to ask
> back?
>
> Actually, why not put up a web page of "upcoming changes" somewhere, that
> lists major decisions with user impact that were taken on python-dev?
> Including a link to the relevant discussion and decision. Often enough,
> decisions are taken inside of huge mailing list threads that get off-topic
> before someone has "the right idea" and everyone who's still there to listen
> agrees. Even for people lurking around on python-dev, it's easy enough to
> miss these moments.
>
> A publicly visible list of those decisions would
>
> a) make it easier for non-core developers to follow important changes on
> python-dev
>
> b) allow potentially impacted people to bring up their POV more quickly,
> e.g. during the alpha cycle of a deprecation release rather than the
> following release, as in this case
>
> c) document the decision taking process by listing the relevant mailing list
> threads
>
> d) help in writing the "what's new" documents
>
> Stefan
>

A "python dev" blog/news site is on the list of topics for the
language summit tomorrow at PyCon. Doug hellmann is going to be
managing that discussion - but there is a general agreement we have to
spread word outside of core and into the general world a little bit
more - and this also applies to other python VMs as well.

jesse