[Python-Dev] The end of 2.7

Stefan Behnel stefan_ml at behnel.de
Sun Apr 7 11:05:57 CEST 2013

Maciej Fijalkowski, 07.04.2013 10:45:
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Maciej Fijalkowski, 07.04.2013 10:37:
>>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>>>> Maciej Fijalkowski, 07.04.2013 10:12:
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 9:51 AM,  <martin... at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>>>>>> Quoting Lennart Regebro:
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:11 AM,  <martin... at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Wrt. to the 3.x migration rate: I think this is a self-fulfilling
>>>>>>>> prophecy. Migration rate will certainly increase once we announce
>>>>>>>> an end of 2.7, and then again when the end is actually reached.
>>>>>>> Well... People are in general *stuck* on Python 2. They are not
>>>>>>> staying because they want to. So I'm not so sure migration rate will
>>>>>>> increase because an end is announced or reached.
>>>>>> I assume you say that because people rely on libraries that haven't
>>>>>> been ported (correct me if there are other reasons to be stuck).
>>>>> I'm stuck because I can't tell my users "oh, we didn't improve pypy
>>>>> for the last year/6 months/3 months, because we were busy upgrading
>>>>> sources you'll never see to python 3"
>>>> Why not? It's not like many people *see* PyPy's sources ever in their life,
>>>> but my guess is that most of your users will eventually end up *using*
>>>> those upgraded sources anyway. So those upgrades will also be an
>>>> improvement for most of them.
>>> Some of them, maybe.
>>> Most people absolutely don't care. Most of my users are people who
>>> want this 10% speed improvement rather than sources upgraded to a
>>> different, supposedly better, language.
>> My guess is that they don't care because they don't have a choice anyway.
>> If they want to use PyPy (because they care about this 10% speedup), then
>> they have to stick to Python 2 as of now. Extrapolating from that that they
>> wouldn't prefer writing Python 3 code if they could is a fallacy.
> You're completely missing what I said. I'm not arguing against
> providing pypy3k and we're working on it. Then users can choose. I'm
> arguing against me porting PyPy *source* to python3, which does not
> affect the language they users are using. Those are two drastically
> different scenarios. One is visible to users (and our plan is to
> support both pypy and pypy3k for the forseeable future) and the other
> is what developers see with really 0 visibility to the user.

Then I don't see why that code would have to be changed at all. AFAIK, most
of PyPy isn't even written in (real) Python but in RPython, which is
essentially "the subset of Python 2.x that PyPy can translate statically".
Unless you deliberately and arbitrarily want to change RPython to be "the
subset of Python 3.x that PyPy can translate statically", the eventual
death of Python 2 shouldn't affect that code.


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