[Python-Dev] Python Language Summit at PyCon: Agenda

Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com
Sat Mar 2 17:58:18 CET 2013

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 7:41 PM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:
> Michael Foord, 27.02.2013 17:51:
> It's also true that many of the topics above aren't really interesting for
> us, because we just inherit them with CPython, e.g. stdlib changes.
> Packaging is only relevant as far as it impacts the distribution of binary
> extensions, and the main changes appear to be outside of that area (which
> doesn't mean it's not truly wonderful that they are happening, Python
> packaging has seen a lot of great improvements during the last years and
> I'm very happy to see it getting even better).

I'm puzzled by this one. Did you leave out PEP 427 (the wheel format),
because it's already approved, and hence not likely to be discussed
much at the summit, or because you don't consider it to impact the
distribution of binary extensions (which would be rather odd, given
the nature of the PEP and the wheel format...)

> Interpreter initialisation would be interesting and Cython could
> potentially help in some spots here by making code easier to maintain and
> optimise, for example. We've had this discussion for the importlib
> bootstrapping and I'm sure there's more that could be done. It's sad to see
> so much C-level work go into areas that really don't need to be that low-level.

Cython's notion of embedding is the exact opposite of CPython's, so
I'm not at all clear on how Cython could help with PEP 432 at all.

> I'm not so happy with the argument clinic, but that's certainly also
> because I'm biased. I've written the argument unpacking code for Cython
> some years ago, so it's not surprising that I'm quite happy with that and
> fail to see the need for a totally new DSL *and* a totally new
> implementation, especially with its mapping to the slowish ParseTuple*()
> C-API functions. I've also not seen a good argument why the existing Py3
> function signatures can't do what the proposed DSL tries to achieve. They'd
> at least make it clear that the intention is to make things more
> Python-like, and would at the same time provide the documentation.

That's why Stefan Krah is writing a competing PEP - a number of us
already agree with you, and think the case needs to be made for
choosing something completely different like Argument Clinic
(especially given Guido's expressed tolerance for the idea of "/" as a
possible marker to indicate that the preceding parameters only support
positional arguments - that was in the context of Python discussion
where it was eventually deemed "not necessary", but becomes
interesting again in a C API signature discussion)

> And I'd really like to see a CPython summit
> happen at some point. There's so much interesting stuff going on in that
> area that it's worth getting some people together to move these things forward.

Yes, a CPython runtime summit some year would be interesting.


Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

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