[Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Terry Reedy tjreedy at udel.edu
Thu Mar 21 07:42:33 CET 2013

On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu

>     Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what?
> Compared to other existing Python IDEs and shells which are layered on
> top of modern GUI toolkits that are actively developed to keep with
> modern standards, unlike Tk which is frozen in the 1990s.

I think being frozen in the late 1990s is better than being frozen in 
the early 1980s, like Command Prompt is. In fact, I think we should 
'deprecate' the Command Prompt interpreter as the standard interactive 
interpreter and finish polishing and de-glitching IDLE's Python Shell, 
which runs on top of the windowless version of CP with a true GUI. Then 
we can promote and present the latter as the preferred interface, which 
for many people, it already is.

>     There are 20 open issues with smtp(lib) in the title. It is 37 kb,
>     making .54 issues per kb. For idlelib, with 786 kb, there are 104
>     issues, or .13 issues per kb, which is one fourth as many. I could
>     claim that smtplib, based on 1990s RFCs is much worse maintained. It
>     certainly could use somee positive attention.

Repeat: based on the 1990s RFCs, needing to be updated to the 2008 RFC, 
itself in the process of being superseded by a more unicode aware RFC.

> You know better than I do that the number of open issues is not really
> the only factor for determining the quality of a module.

And you should notice that I did not present that as the only factor for 
what I said I *could* claim. Actually, I think the comparison would be 
fairer if enhancements were not counted. I am pretty sure this would 
favor IDLE even more (depending on what one counted as a bug).

Let me repeat this question.

What IDE might be a simple, install and go, alternative to IDLE that I
might investigate, even if just as a source of ideas for IDLE?

 >     It should have the following features or something close:
>     * One-key saves the file and runs it with the -i option (enter
>     interactive mode after running the file) so one can enter additional
>     statements interactively.
>     * Syntax errors cause a message display; one click returns to the
>     spot the error was detected.
>     * Error tracebacks are displayed unmodified, without extra garbage
>     or censorship.
>     # Right click on a line like
>       File "C:\Programs\Python33\lib\__difflib.py", line 1759, ...
>     and then left click on the goto popup to go to that line in that
>     file, opening the file if necessary.

Terry Jan Reedy

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