[Python-Dev] PEP 453 (pip bootstrapping) ready for pronouncement?

Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com
Wed Sep 25 23:14:18 CEST 2013

On 26 Sep 2013 06:53, "Barry Warsaw" <barry at python.org> wrote:
> On Sep 23, 2013, at 09:15 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >With the last round of updates, I believe PEP 453 is ready for
> >Martin's pronouncement.
> I want to raise an objection to PEP's proposal to add this as a new
feature to
> Python 2.7 and 3.3.  I understand the rationale as stated here:
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0453/#id38
> but I still object. ;)
> I think we've learned it's generally pretty risky to add new features in
> releases, and this is a fairly major (and would be the first?) violation
> the principal of Python 2.7's conservative maintenance.
> At the very least, I'd like to know why there's no other alternative.  For
> example, you could provide a PyPI package with this functionality, and
let the
> binary packagers adopt it into their binary packages, for platforms that
> So for example, Linux systems which start from the source tarball could
> out (by doing nothing special) since there are other ways to achieve a
> benefit.  For OS X and Windows users getting binary downloads from
> www.python.org, I think it would be acceptable if the .dmg or .msi
> this external package.
> Why does it have to be added to the source tree for stable releases?

If it can get into the installers another way, it doesn't, really. It only
needs to be in the source tree for 3.4+.

Alternatively, we could be explicit that the "don't remove it" guideline
only applies in 3.4+, where it will be needed by pyvenv.

That way, people doing custom builds from source can easily bootstrap pip
and we don't need to come up with an alternate solution for getting them
into the installers.


> Cheers,
> -Barry
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