[Python-Dev] PEP 453 (pip bootstrapping) ready for pronouncement?

Donald Stufft donald at stufft.io
Mon Sep 30 13:18:29 CEST 2013

On Sep 30, 2013, at 5:01 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> Signed PGP part
> Am 25.09.13 23:33, schrieb Donald Stufft:
> > An early draft of this did not have the backport to 2.7 and when I
> > showed *that* version around to get feedback people were less
> > enthusiastic about it and generally viewed it as "nice but
> > worthless to me for N years".
> I'm leaning towards the people that oppose addition of this feature to
> older Python releases. In particular, the objection that the new PEP is
> worthless for a long time to come, is in itself not really relevant:
> It is always the case that features proposed by a PEP reach users only
> years after they have been implemented.

Well the point we tried to get across in the PEP is that a normal feature
you can typically just install a backport from PyPI to gain it early. This
isin't so much driven by "well it'd be nice for the stdlib to have X", but
"well this is a real and valid pain point that causes pain for a lot of users".
The 2.7 backport was driven by just how painful this particular pain point
can be. I've personally had feedback that in tutorials at like PyCon or
meet ups that easily 1/3 of the time can be spent in getting users setup
with Python, setuptools, and pip.

Obviously you're the delegate for this PEP and it's your final decision and
either way If the PEP is accepted I'll do the implementation for 3.4.

> > What users want isn't rationale in and of itself but I think it's
> > an important data point, especially given how long 2.7.LASTEVER is
> > going to be relevant to end users.
> Well, I really really don't like this idea. 2.7 should not get new
> features; users who want new features need to switch to 3.x.
> Regards,
> Martin

Donald Stufft
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA

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