[Python-Dev] Software integrators vs end users (was Re: Language Summit notes)

[Paul Moore]

On 18 April 2014 20:18, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> At this point, however, I'm mainly looking for consensus that there
> *are* two different problems to be solved here, and solving them both
> well in a single tool is likely to be nigh on impossible. (I'm aware
> we're really on the wrong list for that discussion, but I also think
> there's value in getting some broader python-dev awareness of this
> particular topic)

I'm not entirely sure what you're proposing here.

Obviously there are multiple classes of users (whether it's as simple
as just two, or whether there's more is less important).
Clearly there is a case for curated stacks and OS distributions, and
clearly some people use those stacks and distributions.
Things aren't perfect - CPython and projects like pip need to be aware
of, and respond to, the differing needs of people who use Python in
different ways.

But what are you suggesting python-dev needs to *do* about this? What
precisely is wrong with how we deal with the multiple types of user
that exist at the moment?

Without wanting to sound like I'm taking things personally, it feels
like there's an intention to suggest to *some* people that they would
be better served by a curated stack. I don't know how to answer that
except from a personal perspective[1], and it's hard to do that
without knowing whether I'm in a group that you'd see as benefiting
from a curated stack.

One thing I *would* suggest is that a lot of "corporate" use of Python
(by which I mean semi-informal scripting and automation done as part
of the infrastructure of larger projects written in more "enterprise"
tools like Java or higher level CRM/eBusiness/etc packages) is not
suitable for a curated stack (corporate IT policies would see that as
a "3rd party tool" where the python.org distribution is just a
project-internal utility). But the staff involved are typically not
familiar with open source or its culture, and struggle to deal with
things like package management (this is *not* the "legal approval"
issue, as cut and paste of code from websites is common in this
culture - it's "internal use only"). Within the context of your two
categories, this may well be a third one (unless you stretch
"application developers" way beyond what I think you are intending).

Paul

[1] By which I mean "looking at what I use Python for, how I see it
used by others in my organisation, and how I would expect to promote
Python to people who don't currently use it but whom I feel would
benefit from it".