[Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

Donald Stufft donald at stufft.io
Wed Sep 24 22:43:42 CEST 2014

> On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Steve Dower <Steve.Dower at microsoft.com> wrote:
>> Paul Moore wrote:
>> On 24 September 2014 14:16, Mike Miller <python-dev at mgmiller.net> wrote:
>>> It has been a supported option for just shy of 15 years on 2.X...
>>> most if not all the bugs (setuptools) were fixed a decade ago, and
>>> right now thousands, if not millions of people are running it under
>>> Program Files right now. I can vouch for several thousand because a
>>> company I work for distributes Python and pip there for its customers
>>> all around the world w/o issue.
>> One thing that I presume would be an issue. Isn't Program Files protected in
>> newer versions of Windows? I haven't tested this myself, so I may be wrong about
>> this. So take the following with a pinch of salt.
> It's protected very well in newer versions. You typically need to be an administrator AND have opted in to being able to modify system files without warning.
>> Assuming so, that means that if Python is installed there, the standard "pip
>> install XXX" would not work unless run in an elevated shell. We are currently
>> trying to focus on a unified message for how users should install distributions
>> from PyPI, by using pip install.
>> I'm not sure it's a good idea to complicate that message yet by adding
>> provisos about managing the system Python (which is the only one most Windows
>> users will use).
> This is my main concern. Until pip install --user is the default (or the fallback if there are no write permissions on the destination), a default that locks users out of the simplest PyPI experience is a genuine problem. Yes, users can elevate to run pip, but I'd prefer pip to use elevation if it has it and to use per-user if not.
> There also isn't a great story for per-user Python installs on Windows, but that becomes fairly cheap with the installer rewrite.
>> I know this is only the same situation as Unix users have, but Windows users
>> don't have a distro offering packaged versions of PyPI modules.
>> I also know we should be moving towards promoting --user, but I don't think
>> we're quite ready for that yet. And my speculation doesn't compete with your
>> real-life experience, certainly. But I would suggest carefully checking before
>> making the switch.
> A good reason to decide early on a change like this, or at least to promote it as an option in 3.5 and make it the default in 3.6.

One thing about *nix is even though you can’t write to your normal Python
install location without root, invoking pip with permissions (assuming you have
them) is as easy as prefacing it with ``sudo`` in most cases. Does Windows have
an equivalent or do you need to launch a whole new shell?

Donald Stufft
PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA

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