[Python-Dev] PEP-498: Literal String Formatting

Wes Turner wes.turner at gmail.com
Mon Aug 10 05:04:42 CEST 2015

On Aug 9, 2015 8:14 PM, "David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Eric V. Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>> I think it has to do with the nature of the programs that people write.
>> I write software for internal use in a large company. In the last 13
>> years there, I've written literally hundreds of individual programs,
>> large and small. I just checked: literally 100% of my calls to
>> %-formatting (older code) or str.format (in newer code) could be
>> replaced with f-strings. And I think every such use would be an
> I'm sure that pretty darn close to 100% of all the uses of %-formatting
and str.format I've written in the last 13 years COULD be replaced by the
proposed f-strings (I suppose about 16 years for me, actually).  But I
think that every single such replacement would make the programs worse.
I'm not sure if it helps to mention that I *did* actually "write the book"
on _Text Processing in Python_ :-).
> The proposal just continues to seem far too magical to me.  In the
training I now do for Continuum Analytics (I'm in charge of the training
program with one other person), I specifically have a (very) little bit of
the lessons where I mention something like:
>   print("{foo} is {bar}".format(**locals()))
> But I give that entirely as a negative example of abusing code and
introducing fragility.  f-strings are really the same thing, only even more
error-prone and easier to get wrong.  Relying on implicit context of the
runtime state of variables that are merely in scope feels very break-y to
me still.  If I had to teach f-strings in the future, I'd teach it as a
Python wart.

My editor matches \bsym\b, but not locals() or "{sym}"; when I press *.

> That said, there *is* one small corner where I believe f-strings add
something helpful to the language.  There is no really concise way to spell:
>   collections.ChainMap(locals(), globals(), __builtins__.__dict__).
> If we could spell that as, say `lgb()`, that would let str.format() or
%-formatting pick up the full "what's in scope".  To my mind, that's the
only good thing about the f-string idea.

+1. This would be the explicit way to be loose with variable scope and
string interpolation, while maintaining grep-ability.

> Yours, David...
> --
> Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food
> from the bellies of the hungry; books from the hands of the
> uneducated; technology from the underdeveloped; and putting
> advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual property is
> to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.
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