[Python-Dev] Python should be easily compilable on Windows withMinGW

Sat Feb 27 18:32:45 EST 2016

Yep, that link is part of what I was talking about, though really it's one of a few experiments we're working on right now for making the build tools more accessible. I'm not sure it is currently sufficient for building CPython, but that's why I'm working with the team on these - what is eventually settled on should support all of the cases we care about here.

Top-posted from my Windows Phone

-----Original Message-----
From: "Alexander Walters" <tritium-list at sdamon.com>
Sent: ‎2/‎27/‎2016 14:16
To: "Chris Krycho" <chris at krycho.com>; "python-dev at python.org" <python-dev at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python should be easily compilable on Windows withMinGW

Theoretically yes.  Practically, I think, but do not know for sure, it would have the same annoying issues as other SDK builds (of which, the most annoying is just different paths for the tools).  Making that a supported build would require some of the same effort as supporting any other compiler though (a build bot configured to compile python this way).

I also think, but am not sure, that what you linked is in fact the leaner meaner toolchain that Steve was referring to.

On 2/27/2016 16:49, Chris Krycho wrote:

Outsider/observer here; but is it not possible to build Python using the VS *toolchain* (compiler, linker, etc.) outside of VS itself—i.e. using MSBuild[1] and so on? That would remove the need for the full VS install, and is *much* smaller (~800MB after installation, rather than 9GB). A lean and mean VS will be a great improvement regardless, but it seems like that would be a good intermediate solution if it’s possible.
[1]: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=49983
– Chris

On February 27, 2016 at 4:36:54 PM, Alexander Walters (tritium-list at sdamon.com) wrote:
The 9 gig initial download is not the only problem.  Visual studio is very bandwidth hungry in day to day operations (between polling websites and vcs remotes, near constant updating, integration with the VS web service, etc.).  You can of course shut all of that off, but it's a pain.  It's my understanding from Steve's post that a leaner, meaner edition of VS is in the works, so waiting for that might just be an overall better solution.

On 2/27/2016 16:27, Franklin? Lee wrote:

For this particular case, is there someone generous enough (or, can someone apply for a PSF grant) to ship Mathieu a DVD/two/flash drive?
On Feb 26, 2016 12:18 PM, "Mathieu Dupuy" <deronnax at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.
I am currently working on adding some functionality on a standard
library module (http://bugs.python.org/issue15873). The Python part
went fine, but now I have to do the C counterpart, and I have ran into
in several problems, which, stacked up, are a huge obstacle to easily
contribute further. Currently, despite I could work, I can't go
further
on my patch.

I am currently working in very limited network, CPU and time
ressources* which are quite uncommon in the western world, but are
much less in the rest of the world. I have a 2GB/month mobile data
plan and a 100KB/s speed. For the C part of my patch, I should
download Visual Studio. The Express Edition 2015 is roughly 9GB. I
can't afford that.

I downloaded Virtualbox and two Linux netinstall (Ubuntu 15.10 and
Fedora 23). Shortly, I couldn't get something working quickly and
simply (quickly = less than 2 hours, downloading time NOT included,
which is anyway way too already much). What went wrong and why it went
wrong could be a whole new thread and is outside of the scope of this
message.
Let me precise this : at my work I use many virtualbox instances
automatically fired and run in parallel to test new deployments and
run unittests. I like this tool,
but despite its simple look, it (most of the time) can not be used
simply by a profane. The concepts it requires you to understand are
not intuitive at first sight and there is *always* a thing that go
wrong (guest additions, mostly).(for example : Ubuntu and Virtualbox
shipped for a moment a broken version of mount.vboxsf, preventing
sharing folder to mount. Despite it's fixed, the broken releases
spread everywhere and you may encounter them a lot in various Ubuntu
and Virtualbox version. I downloaded the last versions of both and I
am yet infected. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12879). I could do
whole new thread on why you can't ask newcomers to use Virtualbox
(currently, at least).

I ran into is a whole patch set to make CPython compile on MinGW
(https://bugs.python.org/issue3871#msg199695). But it is not denying
it's very experimental, and I know I would again spent useless hours
trying to get it work rather than joyfully improving Python, and
that's exactly what I do not want to happen.

Getting ready to contribute to CPython pure python modules from an
standard, average mr-everyone Windows PC for a beginner-to-medium
contributor only require few megabytes of internet and few minutes of his
time: getting a tarball of CPython sources (or cloning the github CPython
mirror)**, a basic text editor and msys-git. The step further, if doing
some -even basic- C code is required, implies downloading 9GB of Visual
Studio and countless hours for it to be ready to use.
I think downloading the whole Visual Studio suite is a huge stopper to
contribute further for an average medium-or-below-contributor.

I think (and I must not be the only one since CPython is to be moved
to github), that barriers to contribute to CPython should be set to
the lowest.
Of course my situation is a bit special but I think it represents
daily struggle of a *lot* of non-western programmer (at least for
limited internet)(even here in Australia, landline limited internet
connections are very common).
It's not a big deal if the MinGW result build is twenty time slower or
if some of the most advanced modules can't be build. But everyone
programmer should be able to easily make some C hacks and get them to
work.

Hoping you'll be receptive to my pleas,
Cheers

* I am currently picking fruits in the regional Australia. I live in a van
and have internet through with smartphone through an EDGE connection. I can
plug the laptop in the farm but not in the van.
** No fresh programmer use mercurial unless he has a gun pointed on his
head.
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