[Python-Dev] Migrate python-dev to Mailman 3?

Mark Sapiro mark at msapiro.net
Thu Oct 26 13:48:11 EDT 2017

On 10/26/2017 07:28 AM, Wes Turner wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2017, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:
>     On 26 October 2017 at 10:24, Victor Stinner
>     <victor.stinner at gmail.com> wrote:
>     > We are using Mailman 3 for the new buildbot-status mailing list and it
>     > works well:
>     >
>     >
>     https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/buildbot-status@python.org/
>     >
>     My only use of the pipermail archives is to find permanent URLs for
>     mails I want to refer people to. My usage goes as follows:
>     1. Google search for a post.
>     2. Paste in the URL to an email.
>     Or, if I have the post already (usually in my email client).
>     1. Check the date and subject of the post.
>     2. Go to the pipermail article by month, and scan the list for the
>     subject and author.
>     3. Click on the link, check it's the right email, copy the URL.
>     4. Paste it into my email.
>     I don't use the archives for reading. If the above two usages are
>     still available, I don't care. But in particular, the fact that
>     individual posts are searchable from Google is important to me.

A Google search narrowed with "site:mail.python.org" and perhaps
"inurl:listname at python.org" works for HyperKitty archives as well. Also,
the archive itself has a "search this list" box.

...> The complexity of this process is also very wastefully frustrating to
> me. (Maybe it's in the next month's message tree? No fulltext search? No
> way to even do an inurl: search because of the URIs?!)

I don't see these issues. There is a full text search box on the archive
page and I don't see the problem with Google inurl:

> Isn't there a way to append a permalink to the relayed message footers?
> Google Groups and Github do this and it saves a lot of time.

As you note below, there is an Archived-At: header. I have just
submitted an RFE at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/432> to
enable placing this in the message header/footer.

> [Re-searches for things]
> Mailman3 adds an RFC 5064 "Archived-At" header with a link that some
> clients provide the ability to open in a normal human browser:
> http://dustymabe.com/2016/01/10/archived-at-email-header-from-mailman-3-lists/
> I often click the "view it on Github" link in GitHub issue emails. (It's
> after the '--' email signature delimiter, so it doesn't take up so much
> room).
> "[feature] Add permalink to mail message to the footer when delivering
> email"
> https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues/27

This needs to be in Mailman Core, not HyperKitty. As I note above, I
filed an RFE with core and also referenced it in the HyperKitty issue

>     Finally, how would a transition be handled? I assume the old archives
>     would be retained, so would there be a cut-off date and people would
>     have to know to use the old or new archives based on the date of the
>     message?
> Could an HTTP redirect help with directing users to the new or old archives?

What we did when migrating security-sig is we migrated the archive but
kept the old one and added this message and link to the old archive page.

"This list has been migrated to Mailman 3. This archive is not being
updated. Here is the new archive including these old posts."

We also redirected
<https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/security-sig> to

We purposely didn't redirect the old archive so that saved URLs would
still work.

We did the same things for security-announce and clearly can do the same
for future migrations.

Finally note that Mailman 3 supports archivers other than HyperKitty.
For example, one can configure a list to archive at
www.mail-archive.com, in such a way that the Archived-At: permalink
points to the message at www.mail-archive.com.

Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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