[Python-Dev] Naming comprehension syntax [was Re: Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 ...]

[Guido van Rossum]

Definitely docs first. And we should keep references to generator
expressions too, if only to explain that they've been renamed.

Perhaps someone should try it out in a 3rd party tutorial to see how it
goes? I'm CC'ing Raymond Hettinger.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 at 12:05 Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>
>> I think this is worth a try.
>>
>
> How far do we want to go with this? Update the docs? Update the grammar
> and/or code? I think the former is probably good enough for now to see if
> it takes, and if it does then we can talk about updating code to not
> confuse people.
>
>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 12:04 PM Chris Barker - NOAA Federal <
>> chris.barker at noaa.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> TL;DR-
>>>
>>> +1 on advocating the term “generator comprehension” as a synonym for
>>> “generator expression” in future documentation and instructional
>>> materials.
>>>
>>> The long version:
>>>
>>> If we were starting from scratch, maybe it would makes sense to use “
>>> builder” or something else, rather than comprehension. But we’re  not
>>> starting from scratch.
>>>
>>> And “list comprehension” has become a pretty universal (or at least
>>> common) term in the python world. So we really can’t expect to re-name
>>> that.
>>>
>>> And despite the term having its roots in an esoteric corner of
>>> mathematics, I’ve never seen anyone confused by it — it’s just a new
>>> word for a new thing to most folks.
>>>
>>> Which is actually why “generator expression” is a bit confusing — it
>>> seems to have more in common with comprehensions than with generators
>>>
>>> (As in: the things functions with a yield in them produce)
>>>
>>> In fact, the term “generator” is a bit confusing itself — due to it
>>> being a common English word, it seems to refer to the generic idea of
>>> “a thing that generates values on the fly”, which, of course it can be
>>> in Python. But it actually is a specific type. And you can make a
>>> “thing that generates values in the fly” with a regular class that
>>> follows the iterator protocol.
>>>
>>> So re-using the word in “generator expression” just adds a bit to the
>>> confusion. (Even though it’s technically correct, it does “make” an
>>> actual generator object, doesn’t it? (On a phone, so I can’t check)
>>> but that’s kind of an implementation detail.
>>>
>>> Also: if you google: “python list comprehension” you get a LOT of hits
>>> to tutorials, etc.
>>>
>>> So it is WAY too late to change that name.
>>>
>>> When you google “python generator expression” the top hit is the
>>> python docs, and the next few are about comparing generator
>>> expressions and list comprehensions.
>>>
>>> So I think we could start a new naming scheme for those.
>>>
>>>  ‘cause then we’d get lost of questions about the difference between
>>> generator expressions and generator comprehensions ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> -CHB
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
>>
>

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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