[python-events] Repeating events

DL Neil NZPUG at etelligence.info
Mon Aug 15 18:10:39 EDT 2022


Marc-Andre,

On 15/08/2022 20.24, Marc-Andre Lemburg wrote:
...

> We rely on user groups to let us know of changes. They submit their
> recurrence rule and we add the event.
> 
> We should probably do some reviews of the existing entries every
> now and then, but volunteer time is limited, so this doesn't happen
> often.

Yes, I can't see an answer for that. I've cancelled a couple of
Meetup.com group-memberships after 'turning-up' to meetings that didn't
happen, weren't going to happen, but lacked any such notice to
faithful-members.

Have even contacted group-organisers* and not received a reply.
Embarrassment? Grief? Laziness?

* asking about 'the future of the group', additionally with the offer of
assisting the group to go-virtual. This probably a feature of
individuals' reactions to the threats of COVID-19 and the impacts of
'lock-downs' in your areas too.

...
> Quite a few people value the calendars and that's why I started the
> effort many years ago. We now have a small team working on collecting
> and adding events, which makes things easier.

A most worth-while contribution to the Python eco-system!


> Going online with an event certainly helps gain reach, but at the same
> time it also loses a lot of social interaction. At least that's what I
> found in the last three years. With our own user group in Düsseldorf,
> Germany, we've gone back to in-person and even though we get fewer
> attendees, it's a lot more fun and enjoyable for the attendees - which
> is the main driver behind our user group.
> 
> We also tried hybrid, but this resulted in fewer attendees joining
> in-person and social interactions between the in-person attendees
> and the online ones simply did not work out. YMMV, of course.

Completely agree, and you list a number of our anxieties. Pete, our
'benevolent PUG-leader for life' <joke> has been investigating
facilities at the University of Auckland (where he works) to see how
effective their most-advanced 'hybrid' facilities might be. Of course,
they are currently booked-solid and not (yet) available for non-academic
use.

Meantime, we recognise the 'fun' aspects and want to get back to
in-person Coding Evenings (where folk either use the time for a
'sprint', bring a problem that is 'blocking progress', or feel that they
can ask any question).

We're not so concerned about 'Presentation Evenings' because they are
less interactive, by definition.

As mentioned earlier, whilst there are some who object to on-line
meetings and may not (yet) have modified that stance, of those attending
virtual-meetings there are only a few who would attend in-person if they
were given a choice of the two (hybrid), or in-person only. I find this
attitude slightly amusing, in that one vociferous objector to
virtual-meetings is a very enthusiastic contributor to the PUG's
Discussion (email) List - which involves equally 'virtual'
relationships. (but daren't say anything about the latter, for fear of
losing same!)

We regularly survey our membership (meeting attendees). So, we have an
accurate picture (from the 'virtual community' at least) on scales such
as Python Apprentice/Journeyman/Master, Student/Hobbyist/Professional,
and where people are 'beaming in' from. The latter, recently expanded
into questions about who can/can't move to in-person meetings (eg
physical distance) and who would prefer/not. Let's quickly recognise
that this is very much one 'side' to the story - but that we are
reasonably well-informed for that part of the membership. By the way:
one of our PUG leadership-team resides in the Philippines, which is
further away than Kolkata/Calcutta, India from your city.

Which brings me to wondering if we will reach a point of offering two
meetings, or even, splitting into two (discernable, if not 'official')
groups - which would not help meet 'unity' and 'community' objectives.

Even if we restrict our analysis to the folk who live within the
Auckland city boundaries, again given the option of (the previous
'formula') leaving work on-time, meeting at a pizza-place, and then
going to the meeting-room en-masse; or running home/staying at work and
attending virtually; the overwhelming majority chose the latter. I think
this relates to the shape of the city (on an isthmus, so squeezed into
an elongated north-south shape, the transport system, and the idea that
people will return-home in-time to at least see their kids, etc. The
other factor is the proportion of people who have continued the
Work-from-Home practice, either full-time or some-days. They aren't keen
to travel into the city, if the meeting is held on a WfH-day.

Then there are wider aspects of New Zealand which are very different
from the Ruhr Valley. Our population of five million is very spread-out,
as are the cities and major centers. We have PUG branches in four
centers: Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington, and Christchurch. The latter is
the only one for the whole of the South Island (larger of the two main
islands but only a quarter of the total-population - about 840KM from
north-to-south). Hamilton is nominally 1.5hrs south of Auckland (at
least 2.75hrs for me). Wellington is a day's drive or a one-hour
air-flight from Auckland airport (amusingly, my 'equivalent German
distance': is that Auckland and Wellington are almost as far apart as
the distance between London and Stuttgart - both journeys that I used to
make regularly)

The above is informative, but not particularly useful, except to
illustrate that there are large areas where people have not feel
'included' by in-person meeting-opportunities in one of the major
centers (regardless of COVID-precautions). Further, I suggest that there
is a lot less 'business travel' here (particularly amongst IT-folk) than
I noticed/experienced in EUR. A cultural thing? Financial? "Green"/eco?
Accordingly, fewer people able to 'visit' another group - and when the
opportunity did arise, rather than visiting a web-site, people posted a
question to the Discussion List. However, and once-again, that works in
New Zealand, but perhaps only?mostly as a result of our circumstances
(eg geography and population), and may not elsewhere.

Personally, I agree with the social context. I much prefer a dynamic
relationship over the more structured 'one presents, the others listen'
presentation. Feedback is stifled in the virtual environment, and the
encouragement is to 'consume' rather than 'create' or 'participate'.
However, I remain committed to the virtual-option, and to improving it,
finding ways of recovering what is 'missing', and so-on.


The above is presented not as an argument, but as an illustration that
the way PUGs (and no-doubt PyCons*) work in different places, have to
meet their circumstances, and thus differences emerge between
localities, nations, ... Secondly, in the hope that we/I might learn
from your observations and wisdom.


* Kiwi PyCon is being held this weekend - both in-person (Christchurch)
and virtual.
-- 
Regards =dn


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