[Python-ideas] Python 3000 TIOBE -3%

Edward Lesmes ehlesmes at gmail.com
Thu Feb 9 21:20:18 CET 2012

It's too bad Python can't get a piece of that action!

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>wrote:

> Massimo Di Pierro writes:
>  >
>  > On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>  >
>  > > Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>  > >> Here is another data point:
>  > >> http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2012/02/08/language-rankings-2-2012/
>  > >> Unfortunately the TIOBE index does matter. I can speak for python
>  > >> in education and trends I seen.
> Well, maybe you should teach your students the rudiments of lying,
> erm, "statistics".  That -3% on the TIOBE index is a steaming heap of
> FUD, as Anatoly himself admitted.  Feb 2011 is clearly above trend,
> Feb 2012 below it.  Variables vary, OK?  So at the moment it is
> absolutely unclear whether Python's trend line has turned down or even
> decreased slope.
> And the RedMonk ranking shows Python at the very top.
>  > Don't shoot the messenger please.
>  >
>  > You can dismiss or address the problem. Anyway... undergrads do care
>  > because they will take 4 years to grade and they do not want to come
>  > out with obsolete skills. Our undergrads learn Python, Ruby, Java,
>  > Javascript and C++.
> Maybe they should learn something about reality of the IT industry,
> too.  According to the TIOBE survey, COBOL and PL/1 are in the same
> class (rank 51-100, basically indistinguishable) with POSIX shell.
> Old programming languages never die ... and experts in them only
> become more valuable with time.  Python skills will hardly become
> "obsolete" in the next decade, certainly not in the next 4 years.
> You say "dismiss or address the problem."  Is there a problem?  I
> dunno.  Popularity is nice, but I really don't know if I would want to
> use a Python that spent the next five years (because that's what it
> will take) fixing what ain't broke to conform to undergraduate
> misconceptions.
> Sure, it would be nice have more robust support for installing
> non-stdlib modules such as numpy.  But guess what?  That's a hard nut
> to crack, and more, people have been working quite hard on the issue
> for a while.  The distutils folks seem to be about to release at this
> point -- I guess the Time Machine has struck again!
> And by the way, which of Ruby, Java, Javascript, and C++ provides
> something like numpy that's easier to install?  Preferably part of
> their stdlib?  In my experience on Linux and Mac, at least, numerical
> code has always been an issue, whether it's numpy (once that I can
> remember, and that was because of some dependency which wouldn't
> build, not numpy itself), Steel Bank Common Lisp, ATLAS, R, ....
> The one thing that bothers me about the picture at TIOBE is the
> Objective-C line.  I assume that's being driven by iPhone and iPad
> apps, and I suppose Java is being driven in part by Android.  It's too
> bad Python can't get a piece of that action!
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Edward Lesmes
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