[Python-ideas] Introducing PEP 434 -- IDLE Enhancement Exception for All Branches

[Terry Reedy]

On 2/20/2013 6:12 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:07:57 -0500
> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>
>> On the other hand, I agree that a PyPI preview release of a rewrite of
>> IDLE to use the newer ttk widgets would be a good idea. But I personally
>> would base such a project on 3.3 and consider whether it should require
>> tcl/tk 8.6 rather than 8.5. And I would only put it in the stdlib in a
>> new release (perhaps alongside the existing IDLE for at least one
>> release). So this PEP is not relevance to such a project.
>
> The only thing relevant to such a project is to find someone actually
> motivated to do it.

Right. That I what I was trying to say.

> What is IDLE's actual maintenance activity, exactly?

I am not sure whether you are asking about volume or focus. A year ago, 
focus was on bugs that caused IDLE to quit because of an uncaught 
exception. When IDLE is started on Windows from an icon, this looks like 
a crash because there is no visible traceback or exit message. Recently, 
other issues have been worked on. In the last 5 months, activity has 
picked up and there are about 40 issues in 3.4 misc/news whose commit 
message contains 'idle'.

 > I am sympathetic to the PEP

Even though I am willing for the PEP to be rejected, great. I say this 
because I think it better for the community at large, even though a 
strict policy might be easier, on net, for developers.

> but, really, thinking IDLE's development is hampered by Python's
> release process is *completely* ridiculous.

I do not believe I have said that and certainly have not meant to say 
that. What I have said or meant to say is that uncertainly and 
disagreement about how it does and should fit into the release process 
can be a hindrance.

 > If you want IDLE development
> to happen, please stop talking and start reviewing / committing patches.

I have, of course, done some of both in the past year, even if not 
currently. As I remember, the review process for at least one issue got 
hung up on whether a (small) change was a 'bugfix' or 'enhancement' and 
if the latter, whether it could go into all versions or just default. As 
we move from obvious bug issue to more ambiguous issues, this question 
would come up more often.

> FTR, I'm personally +1 on yanking IDLE out of 3.4.

That would tend to keep 3.4 out of some classrooms.  See, for example,
http://search.gmane.org/?query=&author=Jean-Paul.Roy%40unice.fr&group=gmane.comp.python.idle&sort=relevance&DEFAULTOP=and&query=
from a French college teacher. (The issue was fixed by a tk fix last 
March.) But of course, this is a different subject.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy