[Python-ideas] PEP feedback loop (with tracker account)

[Chris Angelico]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 6:16 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> No.  As Chris points out, the PEP process is not a voting process.  (I
> think that's what he meant.  I would say that it is "democratic" in
> the sense that as much as possible we try to come to consensus on a
> "best" proposal.)  And people do switch as PEPs evolve, but I doubt
> they'd be likely to change their "vote" on the PEP site.

Yes, that's what I meant. Python is built, as most open source
projects are, on a model of "a king with his ministers and citizens".
The king, of course, is normally Guido [1]; core devs are Guido's
ministers and close advisers; everyone else who uses Python is a
citizen. (Drawing the line between ministers and citizens is a tad
harder than in a parliamentary structure, so I'm going to horrendously
cheat and say that ministers can be appointed and/or can step down
very easily and quickly.) A PEP is basically a petition, raised and
discussed. It has a champion (at least by the time it becomes a PEP),
and the Champion will seek to demonstrate how the proposal will be of
great benefit. This doesn't strictly equate to "number of signatures",
which is how these sorts of petitions are often treated in modern
politics; it's more about strength of argument. So not only is this
system not democratic in the obvious sense of "majority rules" (if you
get more + votes than -, the PEP is approved), it's also almost never
even about gathering numerical support (which is what this *would* be
able to show). There have been a few times when popular support is
canvassed (PEP 308, for instance), but even then, it's certainly not
"most popular option wins" (it wasn't then, although the chosen syntax
was clearly in the popular group rather than the less-popular group).

Recording who has fully read the PEP and agrees with every little part
of it would be nearly impossible as the PEP evolves, so by the latest
definition, it's impossible to calculate, as well as being
almost-never-useful. Searching the python-ideas archive for the PEP
number and reading through the discussion is probably the only way to
find out after the event, so I sympathize with the desire to simply
eyeball a figure and see; but I can't imagine it being truly useful in
all that many cases.

ChrisA

[1] Some subprojects (like IDLE?) function identically with a different king.