[Python-ideas] CPython needs to revamp/replace it's build system && Cross-compiling Python sucks

[Ryan Gonzalez]

If C99's ok, there's hope. :)

C++'s main issue is that there are platforms that support C99 but have
out-of-date or non-complaint C++ compilers. I love the language (yes, I'm
weird), but it's tricky to have truly portable C++ programs because if all
the holes in various compilers. Just look at all the #ifdef's in Boost.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 7:15 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12 March 2015 at 04:30, Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:40 AM Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10 March 2015 at 21:20, Russell Keith-Magee <
> russell at keith-magee.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Ryan <rymg19 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Russell Keith-Magee <russell at keith-magee.com> wrote:
> >>>> >> >Hi Ryan,
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >First off I'm no fan of autoconf, but...
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Who is other than the one who designed it? :)
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Let me be clear - there's a difference between "not a fan" and
> >>>> > "calling for
> >>>> > it's head". Autoconf is crufty, annoying, and sometimes aggravating
> -
> >>>> > but it
> >>>> > *works*, and has had some pretty seriously battle testing - both in
> >>>> > the
> >>>> > abstract "autoconf as a product", and in the specific "autoconf as
> >>>> > used in
> >>>> > Python". This isn't something that can be said of most of the
> >>>> > alternatives
> >>>> > in the abstract case, or *any* of the alternatives in the Python
> case.
> >>>>
> >>>> Building architecture dependent software is a genuinely hard problem,
> >>>> which is why it's full of "80%" solutions like autotools and the
> >>>> setuptools/distutils pairing. Yes, they're quirky and annoying, but
> >>>> they also basically do their job, so folks tend to develop a high
> >>>> tolerance level for their quirks.
> >>>>
> >>>> In our particular case, we also have the fun problem of "How do you
> >>>> build CPython locally when you don't have a working Python interpreter
> >>>> yet?". A number of the more interesting alternative C/C++ build
> >>>> systems (like Meson, Scons, Waf and the Google "gyp" project that
> >>>> powers the node-gyp native extension build system for Node.js) require
> >>>> an already working Python interpreter to get things started (when
> >>>> starting from a completely blank slate, even our own build sequence
> >>>> has to build a deliberately broken partial interpreter just to freeze
> >>>> importlib._bootstrap before going on to build a properly configured
> >>>> one that can actually import modules).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What about something like Google's new GN? It's designed to replace Gyp
> >>> in building Chromium and is written in C++.
> >>>
> >>> I'm pretty sure using a build system written in Lua to build Python is
> >>> kind of weird.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> With all that in mind...what exactly would be requirements that Python
> >>> would need in an autotools replacement?
> >>
> >>
> >> Can't require anything more than an ANSI C compiler basically. People
> run
> >> Python in places where they don't have much more than gcc.
> >
> >
> > Not even C99? Darn it...
>
> C99 would probably be OK these days. If there's a good enough
> cross-compiling story, I'm also not sure we should entirely rule out
> C++, as it's potentially OK if *developing* CPython requires a
> mainstream platform with a C++ compiler.
>
> But yeah, you can see why folks look at this problem and end up
> thinking "well, you know, maybe autotools isn't *that* bad..."
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
>



-- 
Ryan
[ERROR]: Your autotools build scripts are 200 lines longer than your
program. Something’s wrong.
http://kirbyfan64.github.io/
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