[Python-ideas] Fwd: Make parenthesis optional in parameterless functions definitions

[Sven R. Kunze]

On 01.04.2016 02:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:49:47PM +0200, Sven R. Kunze wrote:
>> On 31.03.2016 20:06, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>> def greet: # note the missing parenthesis
>>>>      print('hello')
>>> -1  This will lead people to think even more often than they do now
>>> that they can omit () in the call.
>> Interesting that you mentioned it. Doesn't Ruby handle it this way?
>>
>> Let's see how this would look like in Python:
>>
>>
>> def distance of point1, point2:
>>      # Pythagoras
>>
>> point1 = (3, 1)
>> point2 = (1, 4)
>> print distance of point1, point2
> I don't know that Ruby allows function calls like that. It doesn't work
> in Ruby 1.8, which is the most recent version I have installed:
>
> steve at orac:~$ irb
> irb(main):001:0> def foo(x)
> irb(main):002:1> return x+1
> irb(main):003:1> end
> => nil
> irb(main):004:0> foo(7)
> => 8
> irb(main):005:0> foo of 7
> NoMethodError: undefined method `of' for main:Object
>          from (irb):5
>          from :0
> irb(main):006:0>

The 'of' was just off the top of my head. You shouldn't take that too 
literally.

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/programming/ruby/ruby-function-method-syntax/

It works without the 'of'.

> However, Hypertalk, and other similar "XTalk" languages, do. Function
> calls in Hypertalk generally have a long form and a short form. The long
> form will be something like:
>
>    total = the sum of field "expenses"
>
> while the short form is the more familiar:
>
>    total = sum(field "expenses")
>
>
> Although Hypercard only allowed the long form if there was exactly one
> argument.
>
>
>
>> Hmmm. Although I like the lightness of this, it's somewhat confusing, isn't?
> In Hypertalk, it worked very well. But I wouldn't think it would be a
> good fit to Python.

Interesting. I think I will have a look at Hypertalk. :)

Why do you think it would not fit into Python?

> In a previous email, Sven also wrote:
>
>> I think the keystrokes are less important than the visual clutter
>> one have with those parentheses.
> I don't think they introduce "visual clutter" to the function. I think
> they make it explicit and clear that the function has no arguments.
> That's not clutter.
>
> When I was learning Python, I found it hard to remember when I needed parens
> and when I didn't, because the inconsistency between class and def
> confused me. I would write `class X()` or `def spam` and get a syntax
> error (this was back in Python 1.5). My own experience tells me strongly
> that the inconsistency between:
>
> class X:  # must not use parens in Python 1.5
>
> class Y(X):  # must use parens
>
> and the inconsistency between class and def was harmful. If I could, I'd
> make parens mandatory for both. So I think that making parens optional
> for functions doesn't simplify the syntax so much as make the syntax
> *more complicated* and therefore harder to learn.
>
> And I do not agree that the empty parens are "clutter" or make the
> function definition harder to read.

Interesting view. It never occurred to me that this might be a problem.

But I started with a later Python version. So, it was just no a problem 
because both is possible now.


Best,
Sven