[Python-ideas] documentation for python3 super()

[Barry Scott]

> On 2 Jul 2016, at 20:28, Guido van Rossum <gvanrossum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The trick is in the mro. If you print Person.__mro__ you'll get a list
> showing that its MRO (method resolution order) is Person, QObject,
> Age, object. In Person, super() refers to QObject (the next class in
> the MRO). In QObject, *for a Person instance*, super() refers to Age.
> In Age, in this case, super() refers to object. The methods on object
> don't call super.
> 
> Hope this helps -- you should be able to get more help by Googling for
> something like MRO


The MRO’s importance is what I managed to not understand from the super() docs.
Now I understand that I can explain the behaviour of the code example.

The existing docs say:

"The search order is same as that used by getattr() except that the type itself is skipped.”

But getattr does not document its search order so that does not help.

"getattr(object, name[, default])
Return the value of the named attribute of object. name must be a string. If the string is the name of one of the object’s attributes, the result is the value of that attribute. For example, getattr(x, 'foobar') is equivalent to x.foobar. If the named attribute does not exist, default is returned if provided, otherwise AttributeError is raised.”

The MRO not mentioned, and not used? So do not mention?

I think it would help anyone else that missed the point as I did to document exactly
what super() does. In engineer English something like this.

"super() uses the __mro__ as the order to search for the attribute to return.
super() starts by finding the type in the __mro__ and then examines the following
items until the attribute is found and returns it. If the attribute is not found
AttributeError is raised.”

Thoughts?

Barry




> .
> 
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Barry Scott <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> On 2 Jul 2016, at 18:58, Guido van Rossum <gvanrossum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> No, super() does not (directly) call multiple functions. The function it
>> calls has to call the next with another super() call. Also, __init__() is
>> not special, nor is **kwds
>> 
>> 
>> The thing I do not understand is why did super() call 2 __init__ functions
>> given the code I attached?
>> The one in QObject and the one in Age.
>> 
>> This is the output I get with python 3.5:
>> 
>> $ python3.5 super_example.py
>> instance of Person.__init__
>> instance of QObject.__init__
>> instance of Age.__init__
>> Person.describe()
>> name: Barry
>> QObject.describe()
>> 
>> I see no obvious code that should call Age.__init__, which is why I
>> concluded that there is something about super() that is not documented.
>> 
>> super() itself is special, it knows the class and instance.
>> 
>> There are conventions around all of this though. It may be worth documenting
>> those, as long as it is made clear which part of the docs is about
>> conventions (as opposed to how things work).
>> 
>> There are also opinions about those conventions. Here I am not so sure that
>> they belong in the docs.
>> 
>> Agreed.
>> 
>> Barry
>> 
>> --Guido (mobile)
>> 
>> On Jul 2, 2016 10:32 AM, "Barry Scott" <barry at barrys-emacs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have read the python3.5 docs for super() and
>>> https://rhettinger.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/super-considered-super/.
>>> 
>>> Between the two sources I still have no clear idea of what super() will
>>> do and why it will doe what it does.
>>> 
>>> I hope to get feedback that can be used as the basis to update the python
>>> docs.
>>> 
>>> For single inheritance the use of super() does not seem to have any
>>> surprises.
>>> 
>>> But in the case of a class with multiple-inheritance more then 1 function
>>> may be called by 1 call to super().
>>> 
>>> What are the rules for which functions are called by super() in the
>>> multiple
>>> inheritance case?
>>> 
>>> Is __init__ special or can other super() calls end up
>>> calling more then 1 function?
>>> 
>>> What is the role of **kwds with super()?
>>> 
>>> Here is the code I used to show the __init__ multiple calls.
>>> 
>>> The attached example shows that one call to super() causes 2 to
>>> __init__ of bases of Person. But describe does not follow the pattern
>>> Age.describe is not called.
>>> 
>>> Barry
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
>