[Python-ideas] Technical possibilities for a syntax [was: Reverse assignment operators ...]

Mikhail V mikhailwas at gmail.com
Fri Nov 18 08:06:42 EST 2016


On 18 November 2016 at 01:26, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> At this point, I think it is a waste of time to continue discussing
> alternatives to augmented assignment syntax. I'm happy to discuss the
> culture of Python and how we decide on making changes to the language,
> but I am not interested in discussing augmented assignment itself.

Fair and honest answer. How one would discuss then about
"how we decide on making changes" at all?
In this particular case, of course I am not interested in assignment
operator *itself* but I am very interested how the judgement on
syntax would see, namely I was very interested to see how people
would imagine writing something in some other way and how it feels.
Thats it. This is kind of too naive, but such questions
I think will and should appear.

And as I see there are quite a lot of absolutely different opinions on it.
Some probably even consider not worth it even looking at examples, since
it from beginning will return "syntax error". Yes there were such
kind of answers (not in this thread, but still I've seen such approach).

I observed the previous thread, where it was asked about
changing += to =+, namely change the direction of symbols
and there indeed followed a bunch of answers, that
a =- 2
will be same as:  a = -2
Well, kind of true, but you know, not necesserily the original
poster did not know it.
And what is much more important, that apart from the compatibility
and tradition issue, there could be still something to think about,
so one probably should try to "read between the lines" and see
how the OP comes to this idea. Yes, it is probably dozen of
people (I don't know) who decides for syntax changes, but the amount of
potential users is huge and I personally tend to look in the future
rather than looking into other languages or worrying *too much*
about oldies who got used to some particular syntax.
I will become one day an old fart too, but I will never be angry
on those who uses better syntax and that my syntax is
obsolete now.
For me personally switching to new syntax, if it looks better,
would be only pleasure and kind of interesting experience.
So it depends and I don't want to hurt noboby with that.

As for backward compatibility issues: it is not my destiny,
but there is an analogy with my earlier discussion about numeric
represantations. One wants to keep the amount of Python
versions minimal and make minimal changes and thats right.
But IMHO one should probably make even less versions of Python
and *longer* period before new version, but with *more*
radical changes to the syntax, the question is where do you
find the people who take responsibilty, that these changes
will be good.
In similar way, there is no sense to
make small corrections to numeric representation
or writing, but it is important to keep the work on it and
only rarely make radical improvements.

A good example is relatively new "format" method for printing strings.
I remember reading a thread on SO and I was almost shocked
how some people write about it. Even given the fact that
nobody prohibited the old % formatter, in some comments
I literally feel the hate. And it is really sad, since it is
just a change to a better readable syntax. In this
moment I really felt sorry for python developers who
want to make something good to people and must hear this.
I would punish those and take away the % formatter.
(that was a joke:).


Mikhail


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