[Python-ideas] Shuffled

Steven D'Aprano steve at pearwood.info
Tue Sep 6 02:51:24 EDT 2016

On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 09:34:05PM -0700, Mahmoud Hashemi wrote:
> I tend to agree with Arek. I've been bitten multiple times, including once
> yesterday, because shuffle works in place, when I really expect a
> sorted()-like behavior for a standalone function like that.


And if random.shuffle() returned a new list, other people would be 
bitten because they expected it to be in-place. You can't please 

In any case, the tracker item I opened has already been closed by the 
module maintainer Raymond Hettinger. I don't intend to pursue this, but 
if anyone wishes to change his mind, you will need:

- good use-cases for the new function;
- evidence that this is common enough to justify;
- and (optional, but recommended) an actual patch.

If you (generic "you", not Mahmoud or Arek specifically) aren't 
volunteering to do the work yourself, the barrier to convince somebody 
else to do it is much higher.

One moderately stong piece of evidence would be if this function is 
widely available in third-party libraries and other languages. That is 
evidence that this is common enough that people are reinventing the 
wheel, and therefore we should consider adding a standard wheel. But I 
don't have the time (or that much interest) to do this, but I encourage 
others to do their homework if they want to make a strong case for this 


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