[Python-ideas] How to respond to trolling (Guido van Rossum)

[Brett Cannon]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 at 15:22 Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017, at 17:39, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 at 20:56 Simon Lovell <simon58500 at bigpond.com>
> wrote:
> > > I don't know what is meant by some insults having been thrown in.
> > > Calling truthiness of non boolean data "Ugly" is an insult? It is ugly.
> >
> > Now *that *is insulting to me. Once again, you are allowed to disagree
> > and
> > say you don't like how truthiness is handled in Python, but you flat-out
> > stating something is ugly insults all the time and effort that me and the
> > other core developers have put into Python to try and make it the best
> > language we can with the constraints we have to work within.
>
> Just out of curiosity... in your estimation, what is a "wart", and why
> is the term "wart" used for it?


That term has been used since before I got involved in Python so I don't
know its history. To me, a "wart" is a design misstep; there were reasons
at the time for the design but it has not held up as necessarily the best
decision. So to me "wart" is not as bad as "ugly" as it tacitly
acknowledges circumstances were quite possibly different back then and
20/20 hindsight is not something we have when making a decision. As a
community we have collectively agreed some things are warts in Python
because enough people over time have shared the opinion that something was
a design misstep.


> I mean, this is an accepted term that
> the Python community uses to refer to things, that is not generally
> regarded to be cause for an accusation of personally insulting anyone,
> right? I haven't stepped into an alternate universe?


You're focusing on the word and not how the word was presented. The fact
that Simon started his email with a blanket statement basically saying his
ideas were great and right automatically shows arrogance. And then
continuing to say that something is ugly matter-of-factly just continued on
that theme. I can normally mentally insert an "I think" phrase for people
when they make a blanket statement like that when the rest of the email was
reasonable, but the posturing of the email as a whole just didn't all for
that.

We can argue what adjective or noun could have been used forever, but the
fact that it was delivered as if in judgment over those who put the time
and effort to make the decision all those years ago doesn't ever feel good
to the people being judged and ridiculed (and I know this can seem small,
but as one of the people being judged regularly I can attest that the
constant ridicule contributes to burnout).
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