[Python-ideas] Things that won't change (proposed PEP)

[Guido van Rossum]

I've not followed this discussion closely, but I would assume that for most
things on the "will never change" list the explanation is simply that the
cost of changing it while maintaining backward compatibility is too high
compared to the benefit of fixing the problem (regardless of whether it
really is a problem).

People who come in with enthusiastic proposals to fix some pet peeve
usually don't have the experience needed to appreciate the difficulty in
maintaining backwards compatibility. (A really weird disconnect from
reality happens when this is mentioned in the same breath as "please fix
the Python 2 vs. 3 problem". :-)

I would also guess that for things that are actually controversial (meaning
some people hate a feature that other people love), it's much easier to
explain why it's too late to change than it is to provide an objective
argument for why the status quo is better. Often the status quo is not
better per se, it's just better because it's the status quo.

from __future__ import no_colons  # :-)

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:

> On 12/01/17 19:51, Todd wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de
>> <mailto:srkunze at mail.de>> wrote:
>>     First of all, I am anti-censor and pro-change.
>>
>
> There is no "censorship" or "banning thoughts" going on here.  Even with
>> this PEP, people are free to think about and talk about how Python could
>> work differently all they want.  What this PEP does is tell them that
>> certain decisions have been made about how the Python language is going
>> to work, so they should be aware that such talk isn't going to actually
>> result in any changes to the language.
>>
>
> By saying that "these are things that will not change", then you _are_
> sort of banning talk about them (if, as you assert, "such talk isn't going
> to actually result in any changes to the language" then you are saying
> don't waste your breath, we won't even consider your arguments).
>
> I think I get Sven's point. A long time ago, someone probably said "Python
> will never have any sort of type declarations.". But now there is type
> hinting. It's not the same thing, I know, but such a declaration in a PEP
> might have prevented people from even spending time considering hinting.
>
> Instead, if the PEP collected - for each 'frequently' suggested change - a
> summary of the reasons WHY each aspect is designed the way it is (with
> links to archived discussions or whatever) then that IMO that would be a
> good resource to cite in a canned response to such suggestions.
>
> It's not that "these things will never change", it's more of a "you need
> to provide a solid argument why your suggestion is different to, and better
> than, the cited suggestions that have already been rejected".
>
> Probably a lot of work to gather all the references though. But it could
> start out with one or two and grow from there. Add to it as and when people
> bring up the same old stuff next time.
>
> E.
>
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-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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