[Python-ideas] venv *is* provided in the standard Python install on Debian/Ubuntu

[Stephan Houben]

Hi Brett,

The current documentation *cannot* be fixed, since
fixing it would entail adding an initial two-page essay
on "how to start Python on various platforms/systems"
(it is really NOT as simple as Windows=python, Linux=python3)
and such a PR will certainly by rejected.

In my opinion, the only alternatives are

1. either harmonize the invocation of python across platforms
  (and *then* adapt the docs to follow).
  Which was pretty much the whole topic of this thread so far.

2. or just use "python" consistently across all docs
  (since that is the *only* command which is at least consistent among
   python.org installers), and add weasel-wording to "consult documentation
  of third-party installers"

3. or leave the docs broken for at least some people some of the time.

Stephan


2017-11-14 2:31 GMT+01:00 Brett Cannon <brett at python.org>:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017, 00:01 Stephan Houben, <stephanh42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Related to this text on https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html :
>>
>> ============
>>
>>  Note
>>   The pyvenv script has been deprecated as of Python 3.6 in favor of
>>   using python3 -m venv to help prevent any potential confusion as to
>>   which Python interpreter a virtual environment will be based on.
>> ============
>>
>> It's clearer than the text below to which I originally referred.
>>
>> However,  this text has also problems in that it is too unix-specific.
>> In particular:
>> * Most seriously, it refers to "python3" which doesn't work with the
>> python.org Windows installer.
>>
>
> It can, but it's opt-in. It's just one of those things that's easy to
> forget.
>
> * Less seriously, it refers to "pyenv" as a "script" which is unix jargon
>> and moreover technically
>>    incorrect on Windows. (Also, needlessly specific, it should just be
>> "the pyenv command",
>>   how it is implemented is irrelevant for this section).
>>
>
> I disagree with this as Python refers to .Py files that you execute
> directly as "scripts", so I don't think this requires clarification.
>
>
> Anyway, a pull request with suggested wording to address your concerns
> would be the best way to try and rectify the issue.
>
> -brett
>
>
>
>> Stephan
>>
>> 2017-11-13 0:32 GMT+01:00 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > On 13 November 2017 at 07:11, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:24 AM, Stephan Houben <stephanh42 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> Hi Antoine,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The venv module is included,
>>> >>> however the pyvenv script is in a separate package
>>> >>> python3.5-venv .
>>> >>>
>>> >>> By the way, I was totally confused by the following text form the
>>> doc.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ========
>>> >>> Deprecated since version 3.6: pyvenv was the recommended tool for
>>> creating
>>> >>> virtual environments for Python 3.3 and 3.4, and is deprecated in
>>> Python
>>> >>> 3.6.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Changed in version 3.5: The use of venv is now recommended for
>>> creating
>>> >>> virtual environments.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ========
>>> >>
>>> >> Not sure where you're reading that. I'm seeing:
>>> >>
>>> >> """
>>> >> Note
>>> >> The pyvenv script has been deprecated as of Python 3.6 in favor of
>>> >> using python3 -m venv to help prevent any potential confusion as to
>>> >> which Python interpreter a virtual environment will be based on.
>>> >> """
>>> >>
>>> >> I think that's pretty clear. "python3 -m venv env" is the standard and
>>> >> recommended way to spin up a virtual environment.
>>> >
>>> > It's further down in the page, under
>>> > https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html#creating-
>>> virtual-environments
>>> >
>>> > I think the deprecation notice for pyvenv should just be deleted,
>>> > since it renders like the *module* is deprecated.
>>>
>>> Ah, I see it now, thanks.
>>>
>>> Agreed; or maybe downgrade it to a parenthetical comment. Focus on
>>> "this is how to do the obvious thing", and only as an afterthought
>>> mention "it used to be done differently" in case someone greps for
>>> pyvenv.
>>>
>>> ChrisA
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