[Python-ideas] Looking for input to help with the pip situation

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:14:50 +1000
Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think Windows ever had python2.exe/python3.exe, but I could be wrong.  
> 
> Not that I'm aware of in the python.org installers, and I don't think
> ActivePython does either. I'm less sure about Enthought or Anaconda
> (since I've never used either of them on Windows).

Looking at my Windows VM...

* from a Miniconda install (equivalent, I think, to a bare-bones
  Anaconda with the minimal package set required for a function
  "python" and "conda"):

c:\>where python
C:\Miniconda3\python.exe

c:\>where python3
INFO: Could not find files for the given pattern(s).

* from a user-created conda environment:

c:\>activate da36

(da36) c:\>where python
C:\Miniconda3\envs\da36\python.exe
C:\Miniconda3\python.exe

(da36) c:\>where python3
INFO: Could not find files for the given pattern(s).


(no clue about Enthought, sorry)

> Yeah, myself, Barry Warsaw, Matthias Klose, and a number of other
> folks on linux-sig have poked at this idea multiple times since Geoff
> Thomas first posted about https://github.com/geofft/pythonmux, but our
> conclusion each time has been that it wouldn't help enough to justify
> the effort involved in implementing and promoting it. After 20+ years
> of usage in the Linux ecosystem, `/usr/bin/python` and `/usr/bin/env
> python` are simply too entrenched in both people's habits and existing
> code.

+1.  As a matter of fact, Anaconda also doesn't seem to expose "py" on
Windows:

(da36) c:\>py
'py' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

> >> 3) Make --user be be automatic for pip install. Not actually the default,
> >> but pip could do a user install if you don't have the permissions for a
> >> non-user install.  
> >
> > The problem here is that the user scripts directory isn't on PATH. We
> > could put it on, but again we hit the "goes after the system PATH"
> > problem (on Windows).  
> 
> We should still optimise the defaults for the desired system
> configuration (i.e. user-mode installs as the cross-platform default
> outside a venv), and then work on platform-specific troubleshooting
> guides for the common ways that things can go wrong.

Hmm... I liked --user at some point, but if you start using it a lot it
becomes problematic, for example if you want to install two
different scripts/applications with incompatible dependencies.

That said, it *is* much better than system-wide installs of user
packages :-)

Regards

Antoine.