[Python-ideas] Debugging: some problems and possible solutions

Anders Hovmöller boxed at killingar.net
Thu Oct 4 08:27:55 EDT 2018

>> Ah, yes. Thank you. So it works in CPython 2.7. But I'm curious, does it work in very old versions?
>> I'm not saying that this is important, because language changes always are for new versions. However, Anders' claim that this not a language change seemed too broad to me.
>> It may be that this change has very little cost, but it should not be dismissed.
>> It works in:
>> Python 1
>> Python 2
>> Python 3
>> PyPy 6
>> IronPython
>> Jython
>> micropython
>> Are there more I should try?
> I've no idea what you actually tried or what actually worked, since
> you haven't shown your code.

Please take a deep breath. The question was not directed at you and I just answered a clear and simply stated question. 

All the examples cited, including the one you link to below work. No need to get angry about this. If you are upset if I discuss implementation details don't reply. This is all I'm doing at this point. 

> However, it doesn't matter.

Of course it matters. It's the difference between changing the spec and changing the spec AND some implementation. There is a difference between those two things. You might not care but that's another topic. 

> This IS a
> language change

Yes I agree. I have said so many times. 

> , and it makes no difference how many implementations
> are lax enough to permit it currently.

Sure it does. See above. 

> You can show millions,
> billions, trillions of examples that support your assumption, but that
> doesn't make any difference - the assumption is false as soon as there
> is a single counter-example, 

...which there isn't. But that's irrelevant. We both agree it's irrelevant. 

> or as soon as the specification is shown
> to *permit* a counter-example.

Maybe. But I haven't argued that this implementation detail is already in the spec have I? I have just argued that it's easy to IMPLEMENT because it is in fact already implemented in all existing pythons. 

I don't see why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp. 

Yes I know it would be a change to the spec. I have conceded this point MANY TIMES. You don't need to argue that point, you've already won it. By walk over even because I never argued against it. 

Can we drop this now? Your point has been made. 

/ Anders

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