[Python-ideas] Python-ideas Digest, Vol 143, Issue 73
Bartłomiej Bartnicki
bmbartnicki at gmail.com
Fri Oct 19 05:55:42 EDT 2018
I agree with Ivan. This feater is stands in contradiction with second
Python Zen principle: "Explicit is better than implicit.". Isn't it?
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM <python-ideas-request at python.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. TypeHinting: From variable name to type (Thomas G?ttler)
> 2. Re: TypeHinting: From variable name to type (Anders Hovm?ller)
> 3. Re: TypeHinting: From variable name to type (Robert Vanden Eynde)
> 4. Re: TypeHinting: From variable name to type (Thomas G?ttler)
> 5. Re: TypeHinting: From variable name to type (Ivan Levkivskyi)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:18:02 +0200
> From: Thomas G?ttler <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de>
> To: python-ideas at python.org
> Subject: [Python-ideas] TypeHinting: From variable name to type
> Message-ID: <2d9d1825-2619-e4a0-1b19-6a614666816a at thomas-guettler.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Imaging you are developing in the django context.
>
> Everytime you use a variable named "request" or "response" your human
> brains
> knows that this is a subclass of django.http.HttpRequest and
> django.http.HttpResponse.
>
> How to give the IDE this knowledge?
>
> One solution is the do typehinting everywhere the veriable gets used.
>
> But why does the human brain not need this?
>
> Because it is intelligent?
>
> I would not call this intelligence. There is a simple
> dictionary in the brain of the developer, which maps:
>
> variable-name --> Type
>
> And this mapping dict exists once per library.
>
> If you are developing in the requests http lib, then
> there is a different mapping. Then "response" means
> type requests.Response.
>
>
> Now my idea: Per module and/or per file type hinting from variable name.
>
> Maybe a magic docstring in the __init__.py file:
>
> """
> variable-name-mapping:
> {
> request: django.http.HttpRequest,
> ...
> }
> """
>
> This makes the type mapping available for all files in this directory (or
> sub-directories).
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
>
> Disclaimer: For reasons I don't want to explain in detail, I am not
> allowed to
> do implement things like this. This is just an idea. I would feel proud
> and thankfull
> if someone likes it that much, that he implements it.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Guettler http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
> I am looking for feedback:
> https://github.com/guettli/programming-guidelines
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:29:38 +0200
> From: Anders Hovm?ller <boxed at killingar.net>
> To: Thomas G?ttler <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de>
> Cc: python-ideas at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] TypeHinting: From variable name to type
> Message-ID: <3A295990-52A3-4347-865E-096E9126C6C7 at killingar.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> > On 19 Oct 2018, at 09:18, Thomas G?ttler <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > Imaging you are developing in the django context.
> >
> > Everytime you use a variable named "request" or "response" your human
> brains
> > knows that this is a subclass of django.http.HttpRequest and
> django.http.HttpResponse.
> >
> > How to give the IDE this knowledge?
> >
> > One solution is the do typehinting everywhere the veriable gets used.
> >
> > But why does the human brain not need this?
> >
> > Because it is intelligent?
> >
> > I would not call this intelligence. There is a simple
> > dictionary in the brain of the developer, which maps:
> >
> > variable-name --> Type
> >
> > And this mapping dict exists once per library.
> >
> > If you are developing in the requests http lib, then
> > there is a different mapping. Then "response" means
> > type requests.Response.
> >
> >
> > Now my idea: Per module and/or per file type hinting from variable name.
> >
> > Maybe a magic docstring in the __init__.py file:
> >
> > """
> > variable-name-mapping:
> > {
> > request: django.http.HttpRequest,
> > ...
> > }
> > """
> >
> > This makes the type mapping available for all files in this directory
> (or sub-directories).
> >
> > What do you think?
>
>
> I tried to implement this in mypy quite recently actually, but gave up for
> various reasons.
>
> I am very much +1 on this. This would be a huge boon to preexisting code
> bases.
>
> / Anders
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:22:08 +0200
> From: Robert Vanden Eynde <robertve92 at gmail.com>
> To: Thomas G?ttler <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de>
> Cc: python-ideas <python-ideas at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] TypeHinting: From variable name to type
> Message-ID:
> <
> CA+msPNkhxXxCWkB4f_YbeR3oJQLNBWLGzvsOfouW+BQ7nonFyA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> That would be a feature in my "python dialect" future library. Taking one
> valid python program and producing another python program :
>
> def f(request):
> return HttpResponse('ok')
>
> ?
>
> def f(request: HttpRequest):
> return HttpResponse('ok')
>
> The dialect options would include "all top functions in this module" for
> example, and parameters about the naming convention (explicit list of
> conversion or rules to create the mapping).
>
> Le ven. 19 oct. 2018 ? 09:18, Thomas G?ttler <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de
> >
> a ?crit :
>
> > Imaging you are developing in the django context.
> >
> > Everytime you use a variable named "request" or "response" your human
> > brains
> > knows that this is a subclass of django.http.HttpRequest and
> > django.http.HttpResponse.
> >
> > How to give the IDE this knowledge?
> >
> > One solution is the do typehinting everywhere the veriable gets used.
> >
> > But why does the human brain not need this?
> >
> > Because it is intelligent?
> >
> > I would not call this intelligence. There is a simple
> > dictionary in the brain of the developer, which maps:
> >
> > variable-name --> Type
> >
> > And this mapping dict exists once per library.
> >
> > If you are developing in the requests http lib, then
> > there is a different mapping. Then "response" means
> > type requests.Response.
> >
> >
> > Now my idea: Per module and/or per file type hinting from variable name.
> >
> > Maybe a magic docstring in the __init__.py file:
> >
> > """
> > variable-name-mapping:
> > {
> > request: django.http.HttpRequest,
> > ...
> > }
> > """
> >
> > This makes the type mapping available for all files in this directory (or
> > sub-directories).
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Disclaimer: For reasons I don't want to explain in detail, I am not
> > allowed to
> > do implement things like this. This is just an idea. I would feel proud
> > and thankfull
> > if someone likes it that much, that he implements it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Guettler http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
> > I am looking for feedback:
> > https://github.com/guettli/programming-guidelines
> > _______________________________________________
> > Python-ideas mailing list
> > Python-ideas at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas
> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:30:53 +0200
> From: Thomas G?ttler <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de>
> To: Robert Vanden Eynde <robertve92 at gmail.com>
> Cc: python-ideas <python-ideas at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] TypeHinting: From variable name to type
> Message-ID: <0c2edac3-36de-723f-2571-a782fa118965 at thomas-guettler.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Am 19.10.18 um 10:22 schrieb Robert Vanden Eynde:
> > That would be a feature in my "python dialect" future library. Taking
> one valid python program and producing another
> > python program :
> >
> > def f(request):
> > ? ? return HttpResponse('ok')
> >
> > ?
> >
> > def f(request: HttpRequest):
> > return HttpResponse('ok')
> >
> > The dialect options would include "all top functions in this module" for
> example, and parameters about the naming
> > convention (explicit list of conversion or rules to create the mapping).
>
>
> I think creating source code from source code is most of the time not the
> best solution.
> Except you call the result not "source code" but "binary executable code".
> [1]
>
> I think it would be great if this could work for local variables (which
> are not in the arg/kwargs of the method), too:
>
> Example:
>
> def foo():
> response = get_response_from_paradise()
>
> If `get_response_from_paradise()` has not spec for the return type, then
> it would be great to guess
> the return type from the general "wisdom".
>
> Regards,
> Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
> [1]:
> https://github.com/guettli/programming-guidelines/blob/master/README.rst#source-code-generation-is-a-stupid-idea
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Guettler http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
> I am looking for feedback:
> https://github.com/guettli/programming-guidelines
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:42:04 +0100
> From: Ivan Levkivskyi <levkivskyi at gmail.com>
> To: guettliml at thomas-guettler.de
> Cc: python-ideas <python-ideas at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] TypeHinting: From variable name to type
> Message-ID:
> <CAOMjWk=sSJZXpnGkniidD1WMY=
> LNM7vJCNLQq-j4t7h8Oz0T6Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 at 08:19, Thomas G?ttler <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de
> >
> wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > This makes the type mapping available for all files in this directory (or
> > sub-directories).
> > What do you think?
> >
>
> I don't think this should be a language feature. _Maybe_ it can be some
> kind of an agreed format between IDEs.
> But in any case I would first discuss this on PyCharm and VScode
> (IntelliSense?) trackers.
>
> Also I don't think it is a good fit for mypy (and probably other type
> checkers, but better ask pytype and pyre devs).
> I would rather expect that IDEs auto-add annotations using some guided
> heuristics, and then type checkers can verify them.
>
> --
> Ivan
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--
Pozdrawiam,
Bartłomiej Bartnicki
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