[Python-ideas] Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause

Franklin? Lee leewangzhong+python at gmail.com
Sat Sep 15 23:39:22 EDT 2018

I am very disappointed with the responses to this thread. We have
mockery, dismissiveness, and even insinuations about OP's
psychological health. Whether or not OP is a troll, and whether or not
OP's idea has merit, that kind of response is unnecessary and

(While I lean toward OP being a troll, the fact that the OP's name is
the same as a Canadian actress is insignificant. Chinese surnames are
single-syllable, there are only so many one-syllable surnames, and
"Samantha" is a common-enough name.)

Since Antoine challenged Calvin to name names, I will name names. If
the thread devolves into one-on-one fights, then you'll know why
Calvin didn't do it.

- Accusing the OP of not being open-minded for proposing (not
"insisting on"!) the idea at all.
    "You ask others to be open-minded, but fail to show such an
attitude yourself."
- Labeling the OP's position as reactionary, and intolerant.
    "And, as a French person, I have to notice this is yet another
attempt to impose reactionary, intolerant American politics on the
rest of the world (or of the Python community)."

David Mertz: Sarcastically suggesting that we burn programming books
if they use "beautiful" in their titles.

Chris Angelico: This implied accusation:
    "Not everyone assumes the worst about words."

- Dismissing the whole post as a troll.*
    "Nice trolling, go on! :-D"
- Calling the OP's idea stupid, and calling a different (settled)
decision stupid. (One can argue Oleg isn't really calling anything
stupid, but I preemptively say that's a stupid argument.)
    "Removing master/slave is almost as stupid as ugly/beautiful."
- Dismissing the stance as oversensitive offense-taking.
    "People shouldn't try and take personal offense to things that
haven't been applied to them personally, or, even worse, complain
about a term applied to anything/anyone else in a way they perceive to
be offensive."
- Mockery: The entire email with this line is spent on mockery:
    'I also propose to ban the following technical terms that carry
dark meanings: "abort", "kill" and "execute" (stop the genocide!) ...'

Greg: Another email spent entirely on mockery:
    """If we're going to object to "slave", we should object to
"robot" as well, since it's derived from a Czech word meaning "forced

* There is a difference between discussing whether it is a troll post
and flippantly stating it as fact. The first brings up a relevant
concern. The second says, "No one can reasonably believe what you
claim to believe, so I won't treat you as a rational person."

- This is completely disrespectful and way over the line. Don't try to
make a psychological evaluation from two emails, especially when it's
just someone having an idea you don't like.
    """However, if merely the word ugly being on a page can be
"harmful", what you really need is professional help, not a change to
Python. Because there's obviously been some things in your past you
need to work through."""
- Mockery.
    """If we have to ban "Ugly" for american sensitivities, then
perhaps we need to ban a number of others for china's sensitivities.
Where will it end ?"""

There are people making serious arguments against the idea, including
the people above. But those arguments could have been made without the
above examples. The above quotes don't treat the OP or the OP's ideas
as worthy of a serious and mature response.

P.S.: I read Poe's Law not as a warning against falling for trolls,
but as a warning about confirmation bias. If I keep falling for poes
of group G, it's probably because I'm too far too willing to believe
negative things about G, and don't care to understand them.

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