[Python-ideas] Clearer communication

[Adrien Ricocotam]

The community is really opened on the subject and I didn't receive any bad
feelings about my English writing.
I just wanted to remember everyone that a lot of us are non-native and
despite the fact we speak well, we might not actually transmit exactly
what we thought, nor understand what was meant. It's already not always the
case when speaking native language.

Actually my paragraph was more a point to introduce the following one :
detailing what we said doesn't necessary mean we think the other is dumb.
A lot of my sentence formulations are inspires by french and might mislead
the understanding. A french would probably get what I mean, non-french will
probably not.

But we're focusing on something that's not the central subject here (even
though it's pretty important).

Le sam. 2 févr. 2019 à 15:30, Hasan Diwan <hasan.diwan at gmail.com> a écrit :

>
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 06:12, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 13:55, Adrien Ricocotam <ricocotam at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Just a point about writing clear and precise English. For a good part
>> of the audience and the writers, English is not our native language. Even
>> if I’m considered good in English according to the standards in France,
>> will far from being bilingual and expressing myself in English is not that
>> easy. Technical discussions are not easy, no matter the language. Using a
>> different language is harder and makes it really difficult some times.
>> That’s why, in my case, I felt I mis expressed myself and proposed
>> explanations on the answers I gave : I thought that was not clear because
>> I’m not English-speaker.
>>
>
> Agreed 100%.
>
> There's also a cultural difference between, even, the UK and the US,
> whereby I'll mean certain things one way and have others interpret it
> differently. For example, the expression to "table" something, means the
> opposite across the pond.  When my American colleagues say things like
> "let's table that", I always have to pinch myself to realise that means
> "put it off" and not "talk about it right now". And I **am** a native
> English speaker, despite what my name would lead some to believe.
>
> The above written, I have found that the python community, insofar as I've
> interacted with it, is more understanding and tolerant of these
> communication nuances when compared to other communities. -- H
>
> One point I will make - for myself (and maybe for the other native
>> English speakers here) I find it really hard to determine when someone
>> here is not a native speaker, basically because in general their
>> English is so good that it's hard to tell! (I certainly couldn't
>> communicate in any way effectively in French, which is the only
>> language I could even claim to have a basic grasp of outside of
>> English). So I'm sure some misunderstandings come from simply assuming
>> people meant what they said, when in fact they were trying to say
>> something slightly different, but didn't realise the nuances.
>
>
>> It's hard to know what to do about this. As an English speaker I try
>> to remember that not everyone is a native speaker, but being able to
>> communicate effectively in another language *at all* is sufficiently
>> foreign to my experience that I can't really understand the
>> implications of being in that position. And expecting non-native
>> speakers to continually remind us that they are speaking in a language
>> other than their native one is unreasonable - not least because they
>> are communicating better than many native speakers (in my experience).
>>
>> I guess the best answer is the usual one - assume good faith on
>> everyone's part, and forgive minor inaccuracies. Also, while pedantic
>> precision is common in technical discussions (and speaking for myself,
>> something I often overindulge in for the fun of it...) it's better
>> avoided in discussions on the list, where the fine distinctions
>> involved may be lost on other participants.
>>
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