[Python-ideas] Consistency in naming [was Re: ...ALL CAPS] (off-list)

[Christopher Barker]

This is getting pretty off toipic, but I want to point out hat as a rule,
Python has been critisised more for having too MUCH cnage than too little
over the last few years:

The py2 -> 3 transition
Adding "yet another" formatting option (f-strings)
Adding :=
The async stuff

Granted, these are bigger deals than changing the spelling of stdlib class,
but the point is that people want consistency as much (or more) as new
features. And changing something like the spelling of datetime buys us
exactly nothing in terms of expressiveness, etc.

Finally, what the heck is wrong with datetime.now ? making it a classmethod
keeps everything in one namespace, so you can reasonably do:

from datetime import datetime, timedelta

and be done with it.

-CHB



On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 9:34 AM James Lu <jamtlu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Python’s decline is in not growing.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 3, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Ned Batchelder <ned at nedbatchelder.com> wrote:
>
> James, you say below, "This kind of readability issue, datetime.now, is an
> example of what’s contributing to Python’s decline."
>
> Do you have any evidence of Python's decline?  Lots of metrics (albeit
> simplistic ones) point to Python growing in popularity:
>
>    -
>    https://www.techrepublic.com/article/fastest-growing-programming-language-pythons-popularity-is-still-climbing/
>    -
>    https://www.netguru.com/blog/why-python-is-growing-so-quickly-future-trends
>    -
>    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/07/26/python-is-becoming-the-worlds-most-popular-coding-language
>
> Are there indicators we are missing?
>
> --Ned.
> On 2/2/19 11:56 PM, James Lu wrote:
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2019, at 3:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 12:06:47AM +0100, Anders Hovmöller wrote:
>
>
> - the status quo means "no change", so there is no hassle there;
>
> Not quite true. There is a constant hassle of "do I need to write
> datetime.datetime.now() or datetime.now()?"
>
> My point was that there is no hassle from *making a change* if you don't
> actually make a change. (There may, or may not, be other, unrelated
> hassles.)
>
> Besides, I'm not seeing that this is any worse than any other import. Do
> I call spam.Eggs.make() or Eggs.make()? If you don't remember what you
> imported, the names don't make much difference.
>
> I accept that datetime.datetime reads a bit funny and is a bit annoying.
> If we had the keys to the time machine and could go back a decade to
> version 3.0, or even further back to 1.5 or whenever the datetime module
> was first created, it would be nice to change it so that the class was
> DateTime. But changing it *now* is not free, it has real, serious costs
> which are probably greater than the benefit gained.
>
> Why can’t we put “now” as a property of the module itself, reccomend that, and formally deprecate but never actually remove datetime.datetime.now?
>
> I solved this at work by changing all imports to follow the "from
> datetime import datetime" pattern and hard banning the other
> statically in CI. But before that people suffered for years.
>
> Oh how they must have suffered *wink*
>
> I'm surprised that you don't do this:
>
> from datetime import datetime as DateTime
>
>
>
> I have a colleague who likes to point that the future is longer than
> the past. It's important to keep that perspective.
>
> Actually, no, on average, the projected lifespan of technologies,
> companies and cultural memes is about the same as their current age. It
> might last less, or it might last more, but the statistical expectation
> is about the same as the current age. So on average, "the future" is
> about the same as "the past".
>
> Python has been around not quite 30 years now, so we can expect that it
> will probably last another 30 years. But chances are not good that it
> will be around in 300 years.
>
> A big reason why projects last as long as you say they last is that the maintainers get un-ambitious, they get used to relaxing in the language they know so well, they are no longer keen on change.
>
> This kind of readability issue, datetime.now, is an example of what’s contributing to Python’s decline.
>
> Bottom line: if someone submits a PR for this, will anyone merge it?
>
> --
> Steve
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-- 
Christopher Barker, PhD

Python Language Consulting
  - Teaching
  - Scientific Software Development
  - Desktop GUI and Web Development
  - wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython
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