[Python-ideas] AMEND PEP-8 TO DISCOURAGE ALL CAPS

[Abe Dillon]

>
> > [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> Nobody is saying that the *entire document* should be in all caps.
> >
> >
> > I've never claimed as much. Most of the reasons all caps harm
> readability hold true whether you're talking about a single word or entire
> document.
> You have implied it by making the claim about single words, and then
> citing references that talk about entire documents.


I don't know how to make myself more clear. I haven't been talking about
entire documents. Some of the links I provided discuss tests conducted on
entire documents. That is not relevant to this discussion. Please cut out
the pedantry. It's aggravating and doesn't contribute to the discussion. It
comes of as you trying to score "points" in a discussion for being more
"technically correct".

Example B:

> [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> Are English paragraphs hard to read because tokens like "HTML" and
> "IBM" are in all-caps?
> >
> >
> > Acronyms are a different use case for all caps. We can discuss the value
> proposition for those in another thread if you'd like.
> > I will say that I read my share of research papers where acronyms tend
> to see heavy use and, yes; it can harm readability.
> Initialisms (that aren't acronyms) carry information: you read them
> out letter by letter rather than as a word (ignoring phonograms etc).
> Constants carry information by being in all caps also.


I'm not talking about acronyms OR initialisms **rolls eyes extremely
hard**. If you want to discuss whether HttpClient or HTTPClient is more
acceptable, go start another thread. I've already responded to this.

> [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> Are you going to appeal to Google to have *their* style guide changed
> too?
> >
> >
> > That's comparing apples and oranges. Python is an open language with an
> ideas forum about how to improve things. Google generally isn't open to my
> suggestions. Any given company I work with is much more likely to enforce
> PEP-8 than Google's style guides. As far as I know, getting Google to adopt
> a given idea isn't a precondition for the Python community accepting said
> idea.
> >
> Both documents are specific to an original context, but have been
> adopted elsewhere. If your company has adopted PEP 8, that's your
> company's decision. It would equally be your company's decision to use
> the Google style guide, or a modified version of either, or a hybrid
> of both. If PEP 8 changes, will your company instantly change its
> policy to be "use this new version"? They don't have to.


This conversation isn't going to go anywhere if you ignore half of what I
write.

> [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> treat PEP 8 as a guideline
> >
> > Again, that's not always an option.
> >
> Again, that's not PEP 8's problem.


It's my problem. It's a problem I have to deal with. It's a problem that
doesn't need to be a problem. It's a problem that can be solved by
modifying PEP-8. I don't even know what you mean by something being "PEP
8's problem".

If you can't contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way, then why
even respond?

On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:24 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 9:41 AM Abe Dillon <abedillon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> Nobody is saying that the *entire document* should be in all caps.
> >
> >
> > I've never claimed as much. Most of the reasons all caps harm
> readability hold true whether you're talking about a single word or entire
> document.
>
> You have implied it by making the claim about single words, and then
> citing references that talk about entire documents.
>
> > [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> Are English paragraphs hard to read because tokens like "HTML" and
> "IBM" are in all-caps?
> >
> >
> > Acronyms are a different use case for all caps. We can discuss the value
> proposition for those in another thread if you'd like.
> > I will say that I read my share of research papers where acronyms tend
> to see heavy use and, yes; it can harm readability.
>
> Initialisms (that aren't acronyms) carry information: you read them
> out letter by letter rather than as a word (ignoring phonograms etc).
> Constants carry information by being in all caps also.
>
> > [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> Are you going to appeal to Google to have *their* style guide changed
> too?
> >
> >
> > That's comparing apples and oranges. Python is an open language with an
> ideas forum about how to improve things. Google generally isn't open to my
> suggestions. Any given company I work with is much more likely to enforce
> PEP-8 than Google's style guides. As far as I know, getting Google to adopt
> a given idea isn't a precondition for the Python community accepting said
> idea.
> >
>
> Both documents are specific to an original context, but have been
> adopted elsewhere. If your company has adopted PEP 8, that's your
> company's decision. It would equally be your company's decision to use
> the Google style guide, or a modified version of either, or a hybrid
> of both. If PEP 8 changes, will your company instantly change its
> policy to be "use this new version"? They don't have to.
>
> > [ChrisA]
> >>
> >> treat PEP 8 as a guideline
> >
> > Again, that's not always an option.
> >
>
> Again, that's not PEP 8's problem.
>
> ChrisA
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