[Q] In-Browser technology

[Vladik]

OK, I will try to clarify my question.
With the warning that I may not be speaking
authoritatively about the web technologies yet:
I am just starting this research.


See below.....


Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:BE2245BA1DCDAE31.8804258C1F60F9A7.2EB4BCD57DBA05D1 at lp.airnews.net...
>
> In article <932337314.611.103 at news.remarQ.com>,
> Vladik <reason at shadow.net> wrote:
> >Hello,
> >Sorry for cross-posting, but
> >my question is really to the people on the news groups
> >who know about Eiffel, Python and Perl.
> >
> >Basically,
> >We are to develop a web client (a program that
> >can be ran witting a web browser) for our otherwise n-tier
> >cross-platform system, our research department gave the
> >recommendation and actually a prototype of the client
> >in MS ASP (active server pages) and, I think but not
> >sure, blended with Visual Basic. Talk about bias...
> >But this means that it can only run in MS IE and not
> >in Netscape, also it limits the number of platforms not only
> >for the client on which web browser runs, but also for
> >the web server (MS platforms only, because web server with
> >active pages can only run there)
> >There is some talk about Java, but our web client
> >will also be ran via Serial links (not T1 connections)
> >on relatively inexpensive systems -- therefore Java is
> >something to look into but it may be slow.
> >So I am set on a quest to find something
> >that
> >a) can be executed within IE or Netscape,
> >b) be faster and overall more resource friendly then JavaScript
technology
> >c) supports OO programming
> >d) does not depend on the platform on which web server is running.( if
the
> >web server is running NT or UNIX (sun, linux)
> >
> >I have found one thing that almost satisfies the requirements:
> >it is based on Oberon-2 programming language and so far sounds
> >VERY promising.
> >  The reason why I am still looking is because
> >there are more books and internet support for Python,Perl and Eiffel
> >then for Oberon (this will be a factor when presenting the proposal
> >to the management).  The other problem is that there is plugin
> >for this technology available for NT and Mac platforms (for both
> >IE and Netscape) and is not available for UNIX platforms (which means
that a
> >web browser can not be ran on UNIX). There is source code,
> >though.
> >If interested: http://caesar.ics.uci.edu/juice/
> >
> >So, finally, my question is is there a technology
> >I am looking for available for either Perl or Eiffel or Python
> .
> .
> .
> No.
>
> That's the short answer.  Slightly longer is this:  I
> don't understand--although I'm sufficiently intrigued
> to answer.
>
> Let's first dispose of the part of my reply where I
> pick nits from your description:
> 1.  "We are to develop a web client (a
>     program that can be ran witting a
>     web browser) ..." evokes to me a
>     plugin.  Is a plugin (supposing a
>     sufficiently potent one exists)
>     exactly what meets your require-
>     ments, or is there a point I'm
>     missing?
I do not know what it is supposed to be
a plugin or not --- but a technology that
allows to develop not-trivial GUI applications
that run withing a browser.

> 2.  "... a prototype of the client
>     in MS ASP (active server pages)
>     and, I think but not sure, blended
>     with Visual Basic ..."  I have no
>     definite idea of what you're say-
>     ing here.  Is it that your
>     customer has a picture of the
>     visual appearance of the desired
>     deliverable?  What is there about
>     the ASP prototype that does *not*
>     meet the requirements?  Is VB
>     blended on the server or client
>     side?  Does it matter?  Is it really
>     VB, or VBScript?

 I meant that VB script was used in the prototype, not VB

> 3.  Are you aware that *lots* of browsers
>     read pages served as ASP?  You can
>     use ASP without requiring IE.
NO I was not aware.  Thanks for pointing out
I will try to find more about netscape (the only
two browser we are to support are Netscape and IE).

> 4.  "... Java ... may be slow."  Lots of
>     things may be slow.  The market-lead-
>     ing browsers are definitely pigs, by
>     my standards, but they've already
>     been mandated, according to your
>     description.
>
>     Technical point:  Java applets work
>     well for me.  Invariably, when I hear
>     people complain about the size of
>     Java applets, they're really com-
>     plaining about ancillary images.
>     Java executable classes themselves
>     are admirably compact, in my experi-
>     ence.
OK, I will take this point into consideration.
I guess what I was looking for is something like
this:
"Here is a technology like Java (or different
but accomplises the same thing), and it is based on this
OO programing language and here is the page where you
can read more about that also includes technical comparasings
between this technology and JavaScript (or other)
"
> 5.  Of what resource is JavaScript not
>     sufficiently conservative?  Do you
>     seriously have performance problems
>     with it?  There are plenty of aspects
>     of JavaScript that deserve scorn,
>     but, unless I have a specific issue,
>     I happily use it to accomplish real
>     work on the client side.
I have never used JavaScript for development, for comparising Juice
applet gets to my computer faster and draws the wireframe
example faster.
The client app we will have to develop will have to
a) maintain a limited set of bussiness rules
b) apply a to relatively large sets of data from the database


> 6.  How much client-side programming are
>     you doing?  Why does object-orienta-
>     tion there matter to you?

Yes it does. Because the app will contain some bussiness
rules, some data access and data presentation layers.

> 7.  What technologies do you want that
>     *do* link client and server platform
>     compatibility?  I can't make this
>     constraint informative in the context
>     of everything else you've written.
Well, I guess what I was asking the ability to have
the server run on any platform and this web client
be executable withing a browser that runs on any platform.

> 8.  What's the part about Juice that you
>     like--is it the promise of superior
>     performance?  Do Franz and Kistler
>     truly make source available?  I
>     hadn't noticed that.  In any case, if
>     I thought it'd help with one of my
>     projects, I'd write them directly.
They make SRC available, I downloaded it,
the license does not seem to be restrictive, but I am
clear on that 100% yet.

>     I'm fond of Oberon, and I wish Juice
>     well.  I don't understand your inter-
>     est in it.
>
> It sounds as though you're involved in quite an ambi-
> tious project, of the sort I like.  I wish you well.
> I suspect you'll do well to clarify several of your
> requirements; this will make it much more inviting for
> comp.lang.* readers to help you.
> --
>
> Cameron Laird

Thanks,
Vladislav