Greetings, Terrans!

"
    traceback.print_exc()

What I use is a class called actionhandler.py, that alows you to pass form
field values as command line arguments. This lets you test your cgis or run
tham as normal scripts. I intent to put it public, but  .... documentaion!

thanos

From matt at null.net  Tue Aug 22 09:26:51 2000
From: matt at null.net (Matthew Schinckel)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 07:26:51 CST
Subject: SimpleHTTPServer on a Mac
References: 
Message-ID: <39a22873_1@news.chariot.net.au>

In message , mikel wrote:
> Why does SimpleHTTPServer.test() fail on my Mac?
> 
> In Python version 1.5.2 on a PowerBook G3 running MacOS9 I execute the 
> following:
> 
> import SimpleHTTPServer
> 
> SimpleHTTPServer.test()
> 
> 
> The result is the following error:
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "", line 1, in ?
>   File "Cairagor:Programming:Python 1.5.2c1:Lib:SimpleHTTPServer.py", 
> line 152, in test
>     BaseHTTPServer.test(HandlerClass, ServerClass)
>   File "Cairagor:Programming:Python 1.5.2c1:Lib:BaseHTTPServer.py", line 
> 475, in test
>     httpd = ServerClass(server_address, HandlerClass)
>   File "Cairagor:Programming:Python 1.5.2c1:Lib:SocketServer.py", line 
> 165, in __init__
>     self.server_bind()
>   File "Cairagor:Programming:Python 1.5.2c1:Lib:BaseHTTPServer.py", line 
> 97, in server_bind
>     hostname, hostnames, hostaddrs = socket.gethostbyaddr(host)
> error: host not found

Are you connected to the 'net when you try this? - I built a meta-search engine
awhile back, and it would give a similar error if the TCP/IP connection wasn't
'real'.
-- 
Matthew Schinckel     

From mark.w.daley at intel.com  Wed Aug 23 15:56:17 2000
From: mark.w.daley at intel.com (Daley, Mark W)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:56:17 -0700
Subject: Tkinter invalidate?
Message-ID: <75F7304BB41CD411B06600A0C98414FCB3689C@ORSMSX54>

OK, I have no idea how to do this.  I want to allow a user to manipulate a
GUI while it is performing an operation in a separate thread.  I am told
what I want to do is invalidate the GUI window every time an event occurs
within it, whether it is a mouse click or the removal of a window that
overlays it.  Does anyone know how to do this?  I am looking in the os
module, but no luck yet.

- Mark

From alex at magenta.com  Wed Aug 23 04:14:25 2000
From: alex at magenta.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:14:25 +0200
Subject: Timeout on read()?
References:   <8nu949$auck$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> 
Message-ID: <8o01ci0qo3@news1.newsguy.com>

"David Bolen"  wrote in message
news:uvgwtrliz.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com...
> Donn Cave  writes:
>
> > Probably true, and the same is still true for BeOS.  But on the
> > bright side, select() is the best way to go on UNIX.  And
optimistically,
> > we can hope that the notion of file descriptor as a valuable abstraction
> > will catch on
>
> I wish - this has to be way up there for me on my list of frustrating
> things about Windows development.  I mean, for just about everything
> they did build this abstraction (e.g., most other resources being
> standard HANDLEs).  Why couldn't they have implemented Winsock as a
> filesystem (as they did their own WNet stuff) and thus have it return
> handles compatible with the all the other handles in the Windows
> universe?

Winsock was born back when Windows (3.0 at the time, I believe) lay
over a DOS 'kernel'.  Being able to obtain generic HANDLE for 'kernel
objects' is a more recent development, dating back to the later
Windows NT kernel, and, in Windows proper, to the even-later imitation
of some of said kernel's functionality (the 'core Win32 APIs') on top of
a modified Dos kernel (the 'Windows95' product).

As a result of all this, Winsock lives in user-space, HANDLE's are
only generated by/for kernel-objects, and NT has no generic way for
user-space code to masquerade as kernel-space (implement filesystems,
or otherwise generate/handle kernel-objects).

Note, by the way, that windows, timers (of the ordinary kind, the
kind that's implemented on top of a window with a WM_TIMER message),
and a few other such things, are also not kernel-objects.  You may
call a window-reference 'a handle', but that doesn't mean you can
WaitForOneObject on it (expecting it to be signaled when it receives
a WM_whatever message).  The reason is very similar -- all of these
objects pre-existed the Windows NT kernel, just as Winsock sockets
did.  Legacy/compatibility constraints seriously hampered any chance
of unification, again in part because of there being no good way
to build kernel-level thingies out of user-space code.

On the bright side -- it *should* be possible, and reasonably easy,
to implement select-like functionality on a mixture of winsockets
(and other user-space objects, that cannot be Wait'd upon but can
receive WM_something messages) and kernel-objects (real HANDLEs).
MsgWaitForMultipleObjectsEx is the system-call that 'merges' the
heterogeneous kinds of objects (ones that are Wait'able, ones that
receive WM_ messages, I/O completions and asynch procedure calls).

If you've ever worked on Unix System V, and had a similar problem
of synchronization between heterogeneous objects -- ones mapped
into filedescriptors, such as sockets, and others NOT so mapped,
such as the various IPC primitives System V was cursed with -- you
will surely recognize the issues (except that the System V designers
had less justification in my opinion, since filedescriptors DID
already exist in the Unix kernel when they decided to use other
heterogeneous mechanisms for semaphores, shared-memory, queues...).

Of course, 'easy' is a relative term.  And it's not clear how
Python could portably take advantage of such a construction if
it did come.  In a Unix 'select', typically, each socket can
have its own separate select-able descriptor, but all the X11
(thus, GUI) activity is mapped to just one descriptor; to let
other objects (threads, processes, IPC thingies) participate,
you have to build some mapping between what you actually want
to select-on (e.g., a process terminating) and actual activity
on a descriptor. In the above hypothetical almost-equivalent
Windows construct, sockets as well as windows (and such things
as window-based timers) would also map to that 'one descriptor',
but processes, threads, and termination of some async I/O would
each have a separate 'descriptor'.  Neither construct seems to
be general enough.  Maybe we need one, more abstract, primitive,
to be _built_ in terms of select (or poll?) on Unix, in terms
of MsgWait&tc on Windows; that might avoid saddling either platform
with the inefficiencies of the other (if the lower-level, platform
typical construct was chosen as the 'primitive').

> Oh well - hope isn't high for me - they've had plenty of time, and I
> don't think this changes in W2K either.

Right, I don't think it changes one whit, either.  Just as I
don't think specific GUI windows will be mapped to descriptors
directly usable in select on any soon-coming Unix dialect:-).

Alex

From kc5tja at garnet.armored.net  Tue Aug 15 17:34:06 2000
From: kc5tja at garnet.armored.net (Samuel A. Falvo II)
Date: 15 Aug 2000 14:34:06 -0700
Subject: Python and CORBA
References:  <8mol0m$4v5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  <877l9jjhpv.fsf@cachemir.echo-net.net>
Message-ID: 

In article <877l9jjhpv.fsf at cachemir.echo-net.net>, Roland Mas wrote:
>> In the interests of not being absolutely shocked when things don't work as
>> planned, PyORBit, or anything else based on ORBit, do not produce IORs
>> capable of being read by any other ORB.  The reason is that they lack an
>> IIOP profile in the IOR, which prevents an object from being located via an
>> IIOP channel.
>
>I'll have to trust you on that point, since I'm absolutely not sure of
>what you mean (in other words, I don't follow you).

An "object reference" in CORBA contains one or more things call "Profiles."
These profiles tell the CORBA ORB where to *find* the object to which it
refers.  For example, if someone were to make a CORBA ORB that used SOAP as
its remote procedure call format, a web URL would be one of the profiles
that sits inside the object reference.

Object references are externalized to files using plain ASCII.  They start
with "IOR:" followed by a bunch of hexadecimal digits.  These digits are
read in by CORBA ORBs when you call the ORB::string_to_object method.

>  On that point I can speak: you are just plain wrong.  Maybe you

No, *I* am not wrong -- the folks who work on GNOME are wrong, apparently;
see below.  ;)

>certain number of Unix sockets in /tmp/orbit- if you do not
>disable Unix sockets in /etc/orbitrc (that's where you activate IIOP,
>too -- IP4 and IPv6, although I haven't tried IPv6 yet).  I guess

THANK YOU!  THANK YOU!  <8~-D  I have talked to no less than about 10 people
about this, in both #gtk+ and in #gnome (nobody on the mailing lists at all
responded to my questions), and *nobody* has ever told me that.  :)

If this works, I'll gladly and proudly stand corrected!  :)  If it doesn't,
do you mind if I private e-mail you for additional assistance?  (Note that I
work primarily with C for ORBit, since Fnorb is already set up for my Python
CORBA stuff.)

>| Also some fairly crude benchmarks of ORBit-Python show that for
>| local calls it is around 50 times faster than Fnorb, 6 times faster
>| than Java, and only about 50% slower then native C code for ORBit.

Well, ORBit itself is honkin' fast too.  Don't forget that good algorithms
is the single best way to "optimize" something significantly.

>  Just advocating a little bit, and reflecting the truth where it was
>mistold :-)

I just wish someone had done this about six months ago, when I was trying to
figure out why, exactly, none of my code was working via TCP/IP... :)

-- 
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447 | Official Channel Saint, *Team Amiga*
Samuel A. Falvo II	    |
Oceanside, CA		    |

From clarence at netlojix.com  Mon Aug 28 21:55:12 2000
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:55:12 -0700
Subject: gratuitous new features in 2.0
References: <7ba5.39a2ccf0.27c0b@yetix.sz-sb.de> <8o026t0rdi@news1.newsguy.com> <3dg0nuspxp.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>  <8o4e4o$mat$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>  <39A78701.720CCEA4@seebelow.org> <8o8qi302ls5@news1.newsguy.com> <39A9638D.CAE7308A@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <967514196.2092522191@news.silcom.com>

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Grant Griffin wrote:
>Alex Martelli wrote:
>** BTW, when reading "The Cat In The Hat", the best way by far to enjoy
>it is to speak it.  But don't try that with Perl <0.25 wink>

Would that apply also to the translation into Latin that I just saw
in the bookstore the other day? 

From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Fri Aug  4 14:22:06 2000
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:22:06 +0200
Subject: [Zope] Proxy role problem
Message-ID: <8mf1nb$54q$1@kopp.stud.ntnu.no>

(Sorry about the off-topicness of this...)

I'm trying to build a relatively standard web app where users can add
objects (ZClass instances) - I have followed the example of the HOWTO
"Build a Searchable Job Board" (without the searching) and have
added the Manager proxy role to the student_addProcessor method which
accesses the student object... (Yes - this is for registering students :)

But when I try to use it without logging in, I'm asked to log in, and when I
decline,
I get the message "You are not authorized to access student".

How can this be? I have tried to re-implement the thing several times, and
cannot se what I'm missing here... If the method is assigned the proxy role
Manager, and the owner is (by acquisition) me, also a Manager, and I
(as Manager) have access to the ZClass "student" - why shouldn't the
method have access?

I'f anyone could help me, I'd be happy to supply more information...

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick

From g2 at seebelow.org  Sun Aug 27 05:20:00 2000
From: g2 at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:20:00 +0100
Subject: gratuitous new features in 2.0
References: <7ba5.39a2ccf0.27c0b@yetix.sz-sb.de>    <39A2EF6E.D21B7E35@seebelow.org> <8o026t0rdi@news1.newsguy.com> <3dg0nuspxp.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>   
Message-ID: <39A8DD40.829CAB37@seebelow.org>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> Hey folks, I am aware of this thread.  Think of this reply as a lesson
> in Pythonic thinking. :-)

BTW, I stumbled upon the following definition of "pythonic" in Websters:
"of or lie an oracle; oracular; prophetic".  I'm glad to get some free
lessons in that. ;-)

...
> If we want to use a special symbol (print  expression), the
> Python parser requires that it is not already a symbol that can start
> an expression -- otherwise it can't decide which form of print
> statement is used.  (The Python parser is a simple LL(1) or recursive
> descent parser.)
> 
> This means that we can't use the "keyword only in context trick" that
> was used for "import as", because an identifier can start an
> expression.  This rules out +stderr, [sterr], and to stderr.  It
> leaves us with binary operator symbols and other miscellaneous symbols
> that are currently illegal here, such as 'import'.
> 
> If I had to choose between 'print in file' and 'print >> file' I would
> definitely choose '>>'.  In part because 'in' would be a new invention
> (I know of no other language that uses it, while '>>' is used in sh,
> awk, Perl, and C++), in part because '>>', being non-alphabetic,
> stands out more so is more likely to catch the reader's attention.

The point about "stands out" is well taken...but I had kindda thought
that it was better that it _didn't_ stand out.  (What was that quote
about yelling, "Fire!" in a crowded theatre? ;-)

...
> [Robin Becker, in a later post]
...
> > I personally would prefer
> >
> >         print to filetypething items,......
> >
> > but no vote is to be taken on this. Perhaps the glorious leadership is
> > becoming dicatorial.
> 
> It was proposed, considered, and rejected on the grounds explained
> above (the syntax would be ambiguous).

I don't know much about language parsing, but as I understand your
explanation at top, doesn't this point apply only if "to" is a "keyword
only in context"?  That is, if "to" is _always_ a keyword, doesn't that
solve the problem?  (I guess it causes a diffrent problem--a certain
amount of broken code--but that's the tradeoff.)  In that case, isn't
"to" just the same parsing-wise as ">>"?

If the intent is to make the special symbol stand out, I guess ">>" is
as good a choice as any (if not better ), but if there's merit in
making it "fit in", much as the "in" part of "for x in y" fits in very
nicely, I'm still voting for "to"--if it can possibly be done.

(then-again-even-if-this-weren't-a-benevolent-dictatorship,-i'm
   -not-even-old-enough-in-python-to-vote-)-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation	      http://www.iowegian.com

From tpalmer at ispam.com  Mon Aug  7 18:59:06 2000
From: tpalmer at ispam.com (Tim Palmer)
Date: 7 Aug 2000 17:59:06 -0500
Subject: Profiler
References: <3985F631.2814FE9A@hack.org>
Message-ID: 

Rikard Bosnjakovic  wrote: 
>I'm using the profiler-module and it works okay. But now I'm interested
>in checking how many bytes memory different parts of my script
>allocates, especially my deep-nested and huge dictionaries.
>
>Is there a way/tool/whatever for this purpose?
>

Try hitting you're hedd with a hamar untill the anser comes too you.

>
>-- 
>Rikard Bosnjakovic - http://a214.ryd.student.liu.se
>
>Anyone sending unwanted advertising e-mail to my address will be
>charged $25 for network traffic and computing time. By extracting my
>address from this message or its header, you agree to these terms.

From tim_one at email.msn.com  Sun Aug 27 23:53:33 2000
From: tim_one at email.msn.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:53:33 -0400
Subject: gratuitous new features in 2.0
In-Reply-To: <39A97BBA.C2BB5228@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: 

[Grant Griffin]
> I know that it's very important not to break old code, and I know Guido
> and other language designers are very committed to that (which is
> generally A Very Good Thing.)  But it's a tradeoff: I would posit that
> people who have a problem with old code vis-a-vis "to" could either
> change it, or just stick with 1.5.2. <>

Grant, just yesterday you were posting on behalf of the commerical world in
praise of "stability".  Nobody is amused when their old code fails to
compile under a new release, and Guido hasn't risked a new keyword since ...
26 January 1994, with release 1.0.0.  That's when he released contributed
code for the then-new "lambda", and it doesn't help matters any that he's
regretted that ever since <0.8 wink>.  The only reason he risked it then is
that he figured he could risk a *little* incompatibility in the first
release of the 1.0 line.

> Also, so many points of Tim's "Python Philosophy" point in favor of "to"
> and against ">>"* that I guess my personal instinct is that The Greater
> Pythonic Good would be served by it.

"No new keywords" has been one of the few absolute rules here.  Although
Guido often shows signs of being on the brink of breaking it .

> *BTW, what's wrong with ">" for redirect?  Heck, anything that both DOS
> and Unix do can't be _all_ bad! 

To both Unix and DOS users, ">" implies overwrite and ">>" implies append.
The print semantics are much closer to the latter.  Ditto to the meaning of
">>" in C++ in an output context.  Using ">" instead would *really* be
gratuitous novelty.

for-much-the-same-reason-python-uses-"+"-to-mean-addition-ly y'rs
    - tim

From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Aug 10 02:37:35 2000
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:37:35 +0200
Subject: VC++ extension 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:08:01 GMT."
             <3992013C.3AA0CA92@san.rr.com> 
Message-ID: 

Courageous  wrote:

> > > This is because the designers
> > > of C++, in Their Equally Infinite Wisdom (R), ah, well....
> > > nevermind. Trust me, they biffed it.
> > 
> > Sorry - I dont trust you.  Please explain, ensuring that you take into
> > consideration that a level of link-time type-safety was a goal...  And
> > also the fact that it is only an issue for interfacing with C - if
> > everyone got modern, there would be no issue here, either 
> 
> The designers biffed it, because they failed to design link-level
> compatability. This is a manycolored problem; a symbol name mangling
> standard would have been a good first step.

Many C++ features are badly designed, but this is not one of them.

The decision for implementation dependent name mangling was made
deliberately -- otherwise lots and lots of implementation details
would need to be specified by the C++ standards. This would
effectively tie the language to obsolote implementation technology. 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92

From dan at cgsoftware.com  Wed Aug 23 01:46:06 2000
From: dan at cgsoftware.com (Daniel Berlin)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: runtime type information in python?
In-Reply-To: <39A35E2A.3392FB80@mit.edu>
References: <39A35E2A.3392FB80@mit.edu>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Issac Trotts wrote:

> Suppose I execute the following code:
> 
> class C: pass
> class B(C): pass
> b=B();
> 
> How do I find out what kind of object b is?

Easy, it's an instance.

use type(b) to find that out.

> How can I find out whether b is-a C?
isinstance(b,C)

> 
> Thanks,
> Issac
> 
> 
> 
> 

From effbot at telia.com  Wed Aug 30 03:57:00 2000
From: effbot at telia.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:57:00 GMT
Subject: newbie q: /usr/bin/env why?
References: 
Message-ID: 

lynx wrote:
> okay, i've noted the tradition of python scripts invoking themselves with
> "#!/usr/bin/env python", but i can't figure out why. exactly what good
> thing does the env(1) invocation accomplish that python finds useful?

http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.63
contains a discussion on why and when using env is a
good idea.

>  - lynx, like all wild cats paranoid of strange new things

don't fear the faq.

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Aug  1 22:53:52 2000
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:53:52 -0400
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <8m658n$ff0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <8m81lg$hm2$1@news.udel.edu>

> I am planning to embed Python into an app, wherby the app also needs to
> use regular expression matching insid the app - so it seems sencible to
> use the pythons own reg exp routines. I don't wish to invoke the
> interpriter everytime I need to do a match. How do you call the regular
> expression matching directly from C++.

The 1.5.2 tar.gzip distribution has full C sources.  There are two you
should look at:
the python pcre code itself (one long file -- lib directory?)
the re module code which interfaces Python to the above (module directory?)

The second should show something about how to directly interface to the
first.

TJR

From g2 at seebelow.org  Sat Aug 26 04:19:54 2000
From: g2 at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:19:54 +0100
Subject: PEP 0214 - extended print statement
References: <200008230743.RAA14956@envy.fulcrum.com.au> <8o0dfs$cjg$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <39A77DAA.207DD1B7@seebelow.org>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
...
> Though I tend to handle this type of 'write to logfile' thing with a
> convenient log object like this:
> 
> class Log:
>     def __init__(self, f):
>         self.f = f
>     def __call__(self, line):
>         self.f.write(line)
>         self.f.write("\n")
> 
> mylog = Log(sys.stdout)
> mylog("foo!")
>
> If I need any automatic conversions to strings, I just use % with %s.

Good idea--thanks!

> Anyway, perhaps this change makes print more useful, but it sure looks
> ugly to me.

I'm relatively new to Python myself (maybe 6 months or so), but my "ugly
alarm" is going off about this whole nutty extended print statement,
too.

and-"beautiful-is-better-than-ugly"-for-a-reason-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation	      http://www.iowegian.com

From thisis at bboogguusss.org  Thu Aug 17 16:21:34 2000
From: thisis at bboogguusss.org (Pat McCann)
Date: 17 Aug 2000 13:21:34 -0700
Subject: Still no new license -- but draft text available
References:   <3991C762.1E8C@seebelow.org> <399321BC.735D3F7@basho.fc.hp.com> <39947690.5977@seebelow.org> <39999656.7D442F3@basho.fc.hp.com> <8nepev$115q@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: 

Grant Griffin  writes:

> Strangely, this VTA implementation (call it "Implementation #1") was marked as
> being copyright by the author, and GPL'd--even though the author had very likely
> written it on his employer's time, and therefore probably did not own the
> copyright--and therefore probably did not have any legal basis to set licensing
> terms (of any kind) on it.

I suspect this happens very often.  Like some important parts of the Linux
kernel, I suspect, but cannot prove (without a lawsuit).  And with non-GPL 
open source too.  Which is why many companies won't mess with it.

> After having done that--and after having made a few improvements of my own, mine
> ("Implementation 4") was now the best of all.  Now, in an ideal world, #4 would
> be "returned to the pool" under the "don't sue me" terms of #2.  However, in The
> Big Corporation, there isn't really any good mechanism to do that, and, besides,
> The Corporate Lawyers would probably stop us: they would see the legal risks as
> outweighing the benefits.  (By nature, lawyers aren't "team players". ;-)

But remember that many members of the open software community (copyleft
and not) will get mad or at least feel badly towards you if you receive
without giving, especially with, as you explained, a general-purpose VTA
(or your improvements).  You and I don't force people to play nicely
with us (like GPL), but we would like them to, especially if it is not
very costly.  Your Big Corp. was not playing nicely just to save a very 
small (to them) licensing risk.  (This is a reason we need a very free 
license that is well known to be "lawyer proof".  Maybe Python's is
close to that.)

You might want to tell us that Iowegian International Corporation 
is not Big Corporation.

From dkuhlman at netcom.com  Fri Aug 18 00:46:26 2000
From: dkuhlman at netcom.com (G. David Kuhlman)
Date: 18 Aug 2000 04:46:26 GMT
Subject: Python + perl and more
References: 
Message-ID: <8nif32$tlt$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Kenneth Power (ken at dresna.xygon.net) wrote:
> My company is wanting to install a web email system, using the current email
> tools we have (Exim MTA, Qpopper and IMAP [uncertain which server]). Is there
> a web email client system coded in Python? Since I would be the maintainer
> and knwo Python...... need I say more?
> 
> If there is no such program written in Python, is there a way to 'interface'
> (term used rather loosely) Python code with Perl? ONe web-client program we
> are evaluating is written in perl. Yet it lacks some features we need (LDAP
> interface for one), and I do not know perl. Any clues on this subject are
> much appreciated.
> 
> Ken

This is probably a little into the future, but you may want take a
look at:

    http://www.zope.org/Wikis/zope-perl/FrontPage

If you follow the link in this page to the FAQ, it says that this
Python to Perl connection will be usable outside of Zope.  (But, if
I were you, I wouldn't bet my project on this until you've looked
at it pretty closely.)

  - Dave

From olivierS.dagenaisP at canadaA.comM  Tue Aug 15 14:34:04 2000
From: olivierS.dagenaisP at canadaA.comM (Olivier Dagenais)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:34:04 GMT
Subject: Still no new license -- but draft text available
References:   <3991C762.1E8C@seebelow.org> <39923999.23B1E430@san.rr.com> <399314C4.1CD73206@basho.fc.hp.com>  <39996F17.9602335F@basho.fc.hp.com>
Message-ID: 

> > How can
> > you sell a product that is no better than your competitors'?
> If your product is *exactly* the same as your competitors, then you
> differentiate yourself in a different way.  Your question is
> interesting, but has already been answered by Ford/Lincoln/Mercury.

What the other "different" ways of differentiating yourself from your
competitors?  Where can I read up on the "answer of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury"?

> Which suggests a different distribution model.  Instead of "pay per
> copy", it's "pay per request".  Since not everybody can be a computer
> scientist, there will always be people willing to pay for work to be
> done.

YES!  Most (if not all) of my clients use the computer because they HAVE to,
and they want as little to do with it as possible.  They do, however, have
access to their department's computer technician, but not very often.
They'd probably prefer paying for my services (since I know the software
inside out) rather than wasting a technician's time.  I think I understand
it better, now.

I also have motivation for decreasing my technical support calls through
making my software as easy and friendly as possible:  the less I am
"bothered", the more time I can spend on the next version.  This might be
harder for a company that has a department devoted to technical support and
one to development, but for a one-man-band, it works out.

> You question is akin to the old question of: "Since everybody can change
> their own oil, then how can Jiffy Lube make any money?"

For the same reason Dr. McCoy always replied:  "Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor,
not a mechanic!"

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Olivier A. Dagenais - Software Architect and Developer
"R is a velocity measure, defined as a reasonable speed of travel
that is consistent with health, mental wellbeing and not being more
than say five minutes late." - Douglas Adams, HHGG, Chapter 34

From skodela at my-deja.com  Fri Aug 25 23:56:06 2000
From: skodela at my-deja.com (Sindh)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:56:06 GMT
Subject: Python experts , please tell me about stdin
Message-ID: <8o7f4f$dro$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi folks

 I am using oython for my cgi dev. I wrote a page with a few file upload
buttons. When I try to submit files , the cgi script
 reads the files ok as long as they are not binary. If they are binary
it waits for ever. Somewhere, on thin news group I read
 that I have to change stdin to bainary mode but the python
documentation does not give any clues.

 So how do yuo set stdin to binary.

 Your help would be appreciated.

 Thanks
 sreekant
--
A man needs to sleep for 36 hours a day atleast.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

From rcv_dac at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in  Thu Aug 24 10:00:31 2000
From: rcv_dac at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in (Ravi C Venkatesan)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:30:31 +0530 (IST)
Subject: configure
Message-ID: 

Dear Colleagues,

I have a query whose answer I'd be most grateful to revieve.  I have
obtained Python 1.5.2 for Linux, and am using tbe Redhat 6.1 version.  The
code is placed in a directory /root/python1.5.2 The problem I face is that
Linux refuses to acknowledge the presence of the "configure" file, on
typing "./configure". It replies "No such file, directory........" 

Please note that I have done all the necessary tasks such as chmod 7777
configure, etc...  I also tried typing the execution path
/root/python1.5.2/ ./configure, but get NO results !. 

Evidently in the situation described above, config.log is NOT created.  Is
there something I should do in correcting the paths ?... I have changed
the code thrice, and yet get the same results. 

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to recieving a reply in the near
future.

Regards

Ravi Venkatesan

From rloisel at helicon.net  Mon Aug  7 06:42:37 2000
From: rloisel at helicon.net (Rodney Loisel)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 06:42:37 -0400
Subject: Need help with PY version 1.5.2b1 (#0 1998)
References: <398E0716.1CDD113E@helicon.net> <20000807093939.V266@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <398E929C.64FD2FA6@helicon.net>

Thanks for the reply - I'll go looking for the 'final' version...
Rodney Loisel

From ckrill at qvlinc.com  Fri Aug  4 14:32:14 2000
From: ckrill at qvlinc.com (Coy Krill)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 11:32:14 -0700
Subject: Python not that wierd
References: 
Message-ID: <398B0C2E.1E6C2A8D@qvlinc.com>

Of course the great thing is that we have Python now and can use it to
automate all those fun tasks like creating NPC's and entire star systems (i
don't play D&D or AD&D anymore.)  I'm teaching my wife and son Python (we
homeschool) and our final project of the year is going to be designing and
creating a full GMs utility for Classic Traveller. Kills two (or more) birds
with one stone. :-)

Moshe Zadka wrote:

> On 4 Aug 2000, Andrew Kuchling wrote:
>
> > Moshe Zadka  writes:
> > > Definitely, Martijn! That would be neat. I'm more of a HEROS (formerly
> > > known as Champions) kind of guy -- I feel in love with super-heroics
> > > because of it.
> >
> > Gosh, who knew there were so many RPGers in c.l.p?  I played the
> > Marvel RPG back in high school, along with the rather clunky FASA
> > Doctor Who game.  I haven't gamed since then, though I've been dying
> > to try the live-action Cthulhu Mythos game since hearing about it at
> > Necronomicon last year.
>
> Andrew, face it, we're all geeks who had nothing better to do in high
> school (that was before Python, of course).
>
> can-we-have-my-rpg-is-bigger-then-yours-flamewars-then-ly y'rs, Z.
> --
> Moshe Zadka 
> There is no IGLU cabal.
> http://advogato.org/person/moshez

From matthew at topic.com.au  Mon Aug  7 00:16:03 2000
From: matthew at topic.com.au (Matthew Hawkins)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 04:16:03 GMT
Subject: Could Swing work with JPython?
References: <8mb7u7$oar$1@cinderella.biglobe.net.tw>
Message-ID: 

Mark Wu  in comp.lang.python:

>    Could Swing work with JPython? If possile! Could some one give me an
>example. I could not find any information about swing in www.jpython.org,

Swing most definately works.  For a simple example, look at the
following.  It's what I've hacked together so far in trying to learn
this stuff myself.  Yes, the documentation for JPython is very poor and
there are very very few online examples.

Note with the actionPerformed and valueChanged examples below how
trivial event handling is in JPython compared to Java.

#!/usr/bin/env jpython

from pawt.swing import *
from pawt.awt import BorderLayout

def exit(event):
	raise SystemExit

class MyFunkyTestTree:
	def __init__(self, name="Sample Tree", style="None"):
                self.frName = name
		self.lineStyle = style
		self.datai = MyDataInterface()
		self.button = JButton('Close Me!', actionPerformed=exit)
		self.textbox = JTextField('Current Selection: None')
		self.tree = JTree(self.datai.createNodes())
		self.tree.getSelectionModel().setSelectionMode(tree.TreeSelectionModel.SINGLE_TREE_SELECTION)
		self.tree.putClientProperty("JTree.lineStyle", self.lineStyle)
		self.tree.valueChanged = self.valueChanged
		self.pane = JPanel(BorderLayout())
		self.pane.add(JScrollPane(self.tree), BorderLayout.CENTER)
		self.pane.add(self.textbox, BorderLayout.NORTH)
		self.pane.add(self.button, BorderLayout.SOUTH)
		self.frame = JFrame(self.frName, visible=0)
		self.frame.contentPane.add(self.pane)
		self.frame.pack()

	def show(self):
		self.frame.visible = 1

	def hide(self):
		self.frame.visible = 0

	def getTree(self):
		return self.tree

	def getTextbox(self):
		return self.textbox

	def valueChanged(self, event):
		self.textbox.setText("Current selection: " + self.tree.getLastSelectedPathComponent().toString())

class MyDataInterface:
        def __init__(self):
		self.login()

	def createNodes(self):
		fooray = ['First', 'Second', 'Third', 'Fourth', 'Fifth']
		top = tree.DefaultMutableTreeNode("Funky Tree")
		wakko = tree.DefaultMutableTreeNode("First Floor, ladies and mens underwear")
		top.add(wakko)
		for fname in fooray:
			yakko = tree.DefaultMutableTreeNode([fname, "Blah"])
			wakko.add(yakko)
		wakko = tree.DefaultMutableTreeNode("Second Floor, habidashery")
		top.add(wakko)
		for fname in fooray[:3]:
			yakko = tree.DefaultMutableTreeNode([fname, "Foo"])
			wakko.add(yakko)
		return top

	# fake function, could authenticate with a database for example
        def login(self):
		pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
	sometree = MyFunkyTestTree('Neato','Angled')
	sometree.show()

HTH,

-- 
Matt

From hzhu at localhost.localdomain  Wed Aug  9 14:27:51 2000
From: hzhu at localhost.localdomain (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 18:27:51 GMT
Subject: [PEP draft 2] Adding new math operators
References:   <3991243D.D987955@fft.be>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:28:29 +0200, Gregory Lielens 
wrote: 
>
>A -> matrix
>B -> matrix
>A.E -> array
>A.E*B -> matrix 
>A.E*B.E -> matrix
>sin(A.E) ->matrix
>A.E.T  -> maybe matrix, or probably error (what is the elementwise
>transpose? no idea!) 
>A.T.E  -> array
>A = B.E -> A should be a matrix (is it possible? I do not think so...)
>and so on...(in NumPy, where array is the default, reverse the
>behavior...)
>
>This "non-persistent" (better than shadow?) behavior is preferable,
>because one want to avoid backtracking the code to know the type of a
>variable to know the meaning of an operation (At least, I would prefer
>to avoid that :-))...
>Such non-persitent behavior plead for operator distinction instead of
>type distinction, imho, and the last example is the one which makes me
>feel really uncomfortable about .E
>
>Well, Huaiyu, if this is not what you mean by shadow class, please
>correct me!

Better than I could put it.  Thanks a lot!

>> I think this approach deserves a much more serious study, because it
>> is much more "Python-like", and requires no syntactical changes.
>> Lobbying for attributes on number types will be a lot easier than
>> lobbying for new operators.
>
>Yep, I agree...I hope this message qualify as a part of this study!

The more I think about this approach, the more uncertainties it presents. It
is the task of the proponents to present a design so that all these would be
fixed in a coherent way.  My impression is it requires much larger changes
to current Python than adding operators.

Huaiyu

From syver at osiris.no  Wed Aug  9 08:23:22 2000
From: syver at osiris.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:23:22 +0200
Subject: Python and Windows Scripting Host
References: <8mnaep$qc4$1@troll.powertech.no>  <39900172.3B6BE092@gssec.bt.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

>>particularly as the WSH object model is
> > available directly from Python without WSH at all!
>
> So how do we access them? Can you provide an equivalent to
> the WSH program posted - assuming events were supported!

Here is an equivalent in standard python with Win32com extensions for Win32.
But I don't know how to do the events in python yet.

import win32com
Ie = win32com.client.Dispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")
Ie.Visible = 1;
Ie.Navigate("http://www.python.org")

while Ie.Visible:
    pass

def Browser_DownloadBegin():
    print "Download begin"

def Browser_DownloadComplete():
    print "Download complete"

def Browser_DocumentComplete(disp, url):
    print "Document complete at %s" % url
    doc = Ie.Document
    print doc.Title

From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sat Aug  5 12:44:22 2000
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 16:44:22 GMT
Subject: Python 2.0 and Stackless
References:   <9b13RLA800i5EwLY@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <8mg3au$rtb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <398BCA4F.17E23309@letterror.com> <398C06BD.4AA6C6A0@inrialpes.fr> <8F875D264gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.155> <398C25D9.91B0F5F8@inrialpes.fr>
Message-ID: <8F878C136gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>

[posted and mailed]

Vladimir Marangozov wrote: 

>Gordon McMillan wrote:
>> 
>> [me, arguing that an execution stack preserves strict frame
>>  ordering, while a graph of frames does not]
>> >
>> >But it is also a fact that by removing the stack you lose its
>> >benefits. So full (functional) compatibility is *not* there.
>> 
>> I'd grant you the first sentence if I thought stacks *had* any
>> functional benefits over graphs. But the only benefit I know of is
>> simplicity at the price of reduced functionality. After all, a stack
>> is just a special case of a graph.
>
>Are you kidding? 

About what?

>What about cycles in the graph?

AFAIK, it doesn't happen. Maybe with sufficient perversion you can make it 
happen.

>Does Stackless create a new frame when we jump to an already visited
>code, in which case it piles them up by emulating the stack?
>(Note: I haven't looked at Christian's code for a while).

If you take an exception, you'll see that there's always a "stack" (in the 
sense of a path back to the root). If continuation1 calls continuation2 
which calls continuation1 again, you'll quickly take an exception. One (or 
both, if you're doing continuations and not coroutines) of those should be 
a jump. If you restart a continuation, you get a copy (if there are 
outstanding references to the old one).

>If not, would the cycle be eligible for cyclic garbage collection?
> 

It's easy in naive usage of continuations to create leaks. Both Just and I 
have found one situation in which we can't seem to avoid the leak, and I 
know (the long-silent) Christian is looking at this. But otherwise, it 
appears possible to have all the power of coroutines and continuations 
without cycles / leaks.

This isn't always easy, but threads weren't easy until a higher level 
module was written, either.

>These concerns deserve to be addressed in a PEP!

These concerns are addressed by the code. What needs to addressed:
 - possible conflicts with GC
 - possible confilcts with other changes to ceval.c
 - ways to make it easier to use 

Personally, I think a coroutine interface is needed. It's fine with me if 
the continuation interface continues to be arcane - that's the nature of 
continuations. But coroutines are graspable even by people who think that 
"call" is not decomposable. I've been using stackless heavily since May, 
and everything I've done with it (except some experiments) qualifies as 
coroutines. Christian & I have talked about the patterns we've each used 
for this stuff, and I hope a friendly interface will grow out of it.

But there's really no sense in proposing that which already exists.

- Gordon

From IAMsvore at mindspring.com  Mon Aug 14 23:02:25 2000
From: IAMsvore at mindspring.com (Steven)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:02:25 -0400
Subject: import xml.sax -> no such module?
References: <39958209.24E2F0D3@ix.netcom.com> 
Message-ID: <8nac2a$377$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

"Jordan Katz"  wrote in message
news:m3wvhmp6by.fsf at underlevel.underlevel.net...
> The whole PyXML distribution
>  which includes saxlib for
Python.

I'm just getting started with XML (or trying to) wrt Python; it appears that
this lib requires a C compiler to build - yes? Is there a library that's
already built for those of us who happen to be working in the Win32 world
and don't have a compiler installed?

--
-Steven
http://Mumble.EditThisPage.com

From bjorn at roguewave.com  Sun Aug  6 16:18:15 2000
From: bjorn at roguewave.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:18:15 -0600
Subject: input question
References: <8mkc61$cmp$1@lola.ctv.es>
Message-ID: <398DC807.6E81BDA7@roguewave.com>

"cr?sh" wrote:
> 
> HI!!
> I've just started with python. I've already finished with the tutorial, but
> I still cant begin.
> I've programed before with BASIC (AmstradB, QB and VB(...jes, for windoze)),
> but I cant find a command to get some data from the user (like 'input "How
> do you feel?", a$' in Basic, or 'cin< Another question: how do I build up a window with some buttons with
> pythonwin? I 've found some commands like 'win32con.CButton.CreateWindow' or
> something similar, but I get errors. Is there any IDE aviable for download?

feel = raw_input("How do you feel? ")
number = input("Enter a number: ")

for the gui stuff I suggest you look at Tkinter and/or wxPython...

-- bjorn

ps: I'm sure you meant cin >> a 

From richard_chamberlain at ntlworld.com  Sat Aug  5 09:19:07 2000
From: richard_chamberlain at ntlworld.com (Richard Chamberlain)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 14:19:07 +0100
Subject: Tkinter buttons
References: <398bf6b9$1_5@news.newsfeeds.com>
Message-ID: <398C144B.E1AF1C5F@ntlworld.com>

Janos Blazi wrote:
> 
> I'd like to have a button with the following properties:
> 
> (1) When I push the button, it remains pushed
> (2)  When I push a button that was pushed it is 'normal' again
> 
> How to do that?
> 
> Janos Blazi
> 
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Hello Janos,

There are two ways to do this (well probably more than two ways :) )

from Tkinter import *
root=Tk()
myVar=IntVar()
checkbutton=Checkbutton(root,text="My
Button",indicatoron=0,varible=myVar)
checkbutton.pack()
def printme(event):
	print myVar.get()
button.bind('

Heading 1	Heading 2
Row 1, Column 1 text.	Row 1, Column 2 text.
Row 2, Column 1 text.	Row 2, Column 2 text.

Heading 1	Heading 2
Row 1, Column 1 text.	Row 1, Column 2 text.
Row 2, Column 1 text.	Row 2, Column 2 text.

foo	bar
1	2