Python in "math through programming" curriculum

Kirby Urner urner at
Wed Dec 20 19:56:52 EST 2000

"Clifford J. Nelson" <cnelson9 at> wrote:

>> I went to this website.  It doesn't work for the Mac at all --
>> Windows only.  So what's your beef with Python on the Mac?
>> At least it exists for the Mac.
>That's why I don't attach ANY weight to what you write!
>Clean used to be a "Mac first product", and Version 1.3.x
>soon to be updated to Version 2.0 runs on the Mac. You would
>know that it runs on the Mac if you could just read.

The latest version with the fancy games library doesn't 
run on the Mac yet (or Linux either).  Older versions 
do, yes, I see that.

I thought maybe you were advocating Clean for kids because 
of the games angle -- what I asked you about.  Apparently 
not so, given the older Clean suits your purposes (what 
do you do with it??).

>> Do you think this emphasis on game programming is better
>> than my "math through programming" approach?  It seems to

So then... what's so attractive about Clean, from your 
personal experience?  I'm just asking.  You haven't said 
anything about that yet (older versions run on the Mac...  
... ... so?).

Python runs on the Mac too (the latest version even).

<< repeated text snipped >>

Lets not forget Squeak and C# while we're at it (the former 
actually has some appealing features as a beginner environment 
-- I've played with it some, but not enough, haven't touched 
C# yet).

And, yes, I do make use of Bucky Fuller's stuff in my Pythonic
'Computer Literacy and Numeracy' pages starting at (most 
curriculum writers still completely ignore his contributions 
-- it's non-standard to integrate it the way I do). 

But I don't see why you're making such a big deal about
that.  I also make use of stuff from Gauss, Fermat, Euler, 
Bell, Descartes and Pascal (sorry about so many guys in 
this context, that'll change)... Euclid and Erastosthenes...

>> My guess is you've done approximately zero using any of
>> the languages under discussion (Python, Clean, Caml).  If
>> I'm wrong, I hope you will show me otherwise.  I don't
>> have a lot of time for completely uninformed discussion.
>> Kirby
>You could inform yourself, if you could only read.
>  Cliff Nelson

Read what?  Where's your Clean, OCaml or Python?  You want
me to use a search engine:  "CLIFF NELSON OCAML"?  Didn't

Does the fact that older versions of Clean run on the Mac 
constitute some big eye-opener?  I'm supposed to be enlightened

You've shown us zilch so far.  Maybe you have some far out 
stuff in Clean to share with us, that you've done on your 
Mac?  That'd be nice.  Wanna post an URL?  Or even answer
my (specific) questions? 

Anyway, I'll stop replying to your posts unless you choose 
to include some substance.  It's fun to bicker like this, 
I have to admit, but I can't justify the time.  My apologies
to comp.lang.python for indulging myself (I don't think 
that other newsgroup is even working -- maybe (and sci.
crypto was a typo -- no such animal)).


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