Smalltalk and Python

Eliot Miranda eliotm at
Wed Dec 13 15:33:53 EST 2000

"Russell E. Owen" wrote:
> In article <3a36c85e.4409136 at News.CIS.DFN.DE>, costas at (Costas Menico) wrote:
> ><snip>..........
> >>
> >>-- Russell
> >>
> >>Having said that Python is not really a great substitute for Smalltalk,
> >>I will admit that I am working on a reasonable scale GUI project in
> >>Python because even though I adore ST I have doubts about ST's long-term
> >>viability (cincom seems to be back to ParcPlace's old tricks on insane
> >>pricing) and it'd be an incredibly hard sell to my management. I may be
> >>setting up for failure, due to Python's mediocre GUI, but I'm having a
> >>go at it.
> >
> >Cincom is not the only Smalltalk out there. What is wrong with the
> >other lower cost ones?
> I need something that is:
> -- reasonably well supported
> - likely to be around for awhile
> - runs on Mac, unix and possibly PC
> - can write GUI code with reasonably native look and feel
> I would also prefer a language that is fairly clean and not evolving very quickly (which I dearly hope Squeak eventually becomes).
> I don't think there is a Smalltalk that fits these requirements other than Cincom, is there?
> - Squeak runs on everything but its GUI stuff is slow and uses a rooted main window, making it pretty hopeless for native feel, at least on Mac
> - IBM and Dolphin are mature but only runs on PC and (IBM) unix
> - I tried QKS years ago but got tired of it always being in beta, always promises for a real release some year.
> Also, as I said, it'd be a tough fight. The conservatism in astronomy is astonishing. If it's not C or Perl then it's going to be a struggle to put it through. We're already using Python and selling it as a "better Perl", but for me to push Smalltalk there has to be an obvious first-class implementation that we can afford and will obviously do what we need. Cincom is too expensive, and given their pricing policies I expect it to continue to be a language with limited public knowledge and acceptance.

I would think that astronomy in the state university system would count
as non-commercial use.  However, I'm not speaking for Cincom here,
rather as an ex British University lecturer.  I'd go ahead and use the
non-commercial system (is got everything in it the commercial one has)
and then see if Cincom sues.  Suing is only worthwhile if the party
being sued actually has enough money to cover costs, so that's going to
prevent Cincom suing a University astronomy department immediately,

> -- Russell

Eliot Miranda              Smalltalk - Scene not herd

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