Tangential anti-educationist rant (was: what is easier to lea rn first?...)

[Juergen A. Erhard]

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Hi Alessandro,

>>>>> "Alessandro" == Alessandro Bottoni <Alessandro.Bottoni at think3.com> writes:

    Alessandro> This topic is somehow more complicated.

    Alessandro> A few days ago, I tried to propose a course of "basic"
    Alessandro> computer programming, aimed to PC Windows users
    Alessandro> without any previous experience in programming.  The
    Alessandro> course was based on Python, for obvious reasons.

    Alessandro> The immediate response of the involved boss was: -
    Alessandro> "Py-what? What in the hell is 'Pizon'?! Let apart this
    Alessandro> academic bullshit and teach the good, old Basic, if do
    Alessandro> not want to use C!"

    Alessandro> (He is not my company boss...for the chronicle)

    Alessandro> It is evident that there is a "marketing" problem
    Alessandro> here: you just cannot hang a poster in the local high
    Alessandro> school's hall, announcing a Python (or Scheme,
    Alessandro> Haskell, Eiffel, or... fill-in the blank) language,
    Alessandro> and hope it will attract people from all around the
    Alessandro> world.

    Alessandro> As usual, you have to speak a "language" that your
    Alessandro> intended audience (first of all your paying boss..)
    Alessandro> can understand. Python is not "understandable" by
    Alessandro> aspiring programmers as a desirable skill, at least
    Alessandro> here.

    Alessandro> Basic and C are well-known, no more than
    Alessandro> well-known. Hence, they are understandable. A kid can
    Alessandro> aspire to learn them, just because he knows that they
    Alessandro> exists and that they are widely used (he just does not
    Alessandro> know that they are widely hated, as well...). This is
    Alessandro> not true in the case of Python and many other
    Alessandro> languages: my boss and my audience just do not know
    Alessandro> what Python is and how widely it is used.

    Alessandro> I'm afraid it will take time to have Python as a
    Alessandro> "teachable" language, politically speaking. Guido's
    Alessandro> effort in the direction of the "Programming Language
    Alessandro> for EveryBody" is crucial for opening this "market".

I hate to say it, but I think well-known Python-based projects will do
a lot more on that front than any CP4E will...

You mention it yourself: We have to understand just *why* C and C++
are taught to beginners (or Basic).  It's because the *use* of these
languages is wide and well-known.  There are a million and one
projects (both free and proprietary) out there in *those* languages.

Whenever someone sees an interesting project to work on, or looks for
example code to learn from (be it student or teacher), what do they
easily find?  C++ (more than C), Java (tons), Basic (megatons ;-)...

Looking for Python?  Well, there's... there's... what *is* there,
dammit?!

Zope is getting more visible, Mailman seems to be a winner (I hope it
will supplant all the ezmlms, smartlists and Majordomos I have
subscriptions on).

*Those* will be what moves Python into becoming a language that is
being taught.

At least that's M(S-H)O.

Bye, J

PS: BTW, is there a list of Python-based apps somewhere?  I'm not
online ATM, so I can't check... it would be a nice tool for advocacy
purposes to have a short list of `presentable' apps and tools.  And I
don't mean something like Parnassus, which you have to browse... I'm
thinking of a short list of about 5 to 10 items...

- -- 
Jürgen A. Erhard      eMail: jae at ilk.de      phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
          My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard
               GTK - Free X Toolkit (http://www.gtk.org)
             pros do it for money -- amateurs out of love.
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