Java vs Python

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

Woohoo!  actually steering back on topic ... I mostly have a lot of
questions for the list here.

JRHoldem <jraddockNOjrSPAM at hotmail.com.invalid> writes:

> Back to the topic of the thread...I think in some ways Java is
> *better* simply because the industry supports and accepts it
> more (although thanks to members of this community Python is
> becoming more widespread [that's why I'm here now{tx Glyph}]).
> 
> I don't claim to be a python expert by any stretch, however I
> know alot about developing marketable software that needs to be
> accepted by a broad audience. Certainly mainstream support from
> a market "leader" (and I use the term loosely in this case) like
> Sun should be a factor in choosing your platform...

I question the wisdom of this statement, but I am afraid I can't
openly dispute it.  Part of the problem, I suppose, is the difficulty
of demonstrating Python's advantage over Java and applicability to
certain problem domains.

Python can definitely be used to solve certain classes of problem
better than Java, however.  It's not just Java though, it's other
heavily entrenched languages such as C++, Perl, and even Visual Basic.
If you're just trying to solve a computing problem, and one tool will
solve it better than another, why is it that IT managers have such a
propensity to go for the tool which is "better supported", I.E. the
one they've read about more recently, regardless of the actual merits
of the tools?

I know this is one of the things the Open Source "movement" was
started to combat, and they've had some degree of success, but mainly
that seems to come from the fact that people like Red Hat and VA Linux
Systems are pouring TONS of money into marketing Open Source in
general, and Linux specifically.  I am afraid that entrenched,
credible Open Source projects will start to get this kind of bizarre
inertia, inspired by the marketing, while newer ones struggle in the
same way that their "ancestors" did.

> Programming is not a pure art in today's world, if it was then
> maybe we could realistically compare Java and Python based on
> pure performance standards. However, marketability, support and
> breadth of knowledge base are all things any IT manager needs to
> consider when picking the *best* software platform.

The "support" argument strikes me as spurious.  I've gotten much more
support for Python from #python and this ng than I have from the Java
equivalents ... and if you're small, support from Sun is unrealistic,
if you're large, it's still overpriced and not really worth too much.
(Same for the Linux-support versus Microsoft-support argument ... some
commercial support is really excellent, but being "commercial" doesn't
magically make it good.)

Marketability?  Hm.  The thing that makes Java marketable is the
tremendous amount of money that Sun has poured into getting it into
every trade rag that they could possibly find.  Fellow pythonistas,
short of getting Guido to use the time machine for material gain
<wink> is there any way we can effectively market Python as a
competitor to a language / platform with that kind of agressive force
behind it?

"breadth of knowledge base" -- this ties into marketability.
Employers see ads, they figure people are out there learning Java.
Potential employees see ads, they figure that employers are looking
for java.  Where does one go (aside from the New York Times) to
illustrate that there exists an employable pool of python programmers
who know what they're doing?  Better yet, is there some way to
demonstrate the low learning curve of python?  All I've heard so far
is anecdotal evidence (and the CP4E paper even refers explicitly to
that as a reason for believing python is easy to learn).

My conclusion is obviously that Python needs more marketing ;-)
hopefully it can have this without becoming evil.  Is the PSA doing
anything on this front?

> P.S. Remarq is screwing up my Email address. For those who want
> to continue any part of this conversation in email, I'd be glad
> to learn and teach...jraddock at hotmail.com

RemarQ does that for a reason.  My mailbox has gotten ... more
"interesting" of late ;-).  Also ... this is the *python* list... and
you know who Python is named for, right?

spam-spam-spam-spam-spam-spam-spam-spam-wonderful-spam-lovely-spam-ly
y'rs,

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